OK Mikeyy, what's the going rate for the freeing from oppression of ~20,000,000 people? What's the acceptable cost to save millions of people from having to live under the most oppressive gov't on the planet at the time (according to Amnesty Int'l)?? What's the price limit on freedom?

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Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

God is a conservative -

Ecclesiastes 10:2--"A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left."

If I give you a price, will you make up the difference?
Will you reimburse the American people for the expense that they were not informed of?

Or is this all just propagandic nonsense, because if a Democrat had been in office, you would have condemned him multiple times over for the same problems?

Part of the funny thing is that YOU ARE NOT EVEN PAYING this amount.
The vast majority of this cost has been deferred to our CHILDREN and our CHILDREN's CHILDREN.

It is absurd hubris to ask this question, when we both know YOU HAVE NO INTENTION of charging ANY of the CURRENT voting public for this cost.
So it's ridiculously deceitful to ask a rhetorical question that you have no intention of honoring...

It's pointless to quibble over the amount when we BOTH KNOW that the American people WERE NOT WILLING to pay the amount we have.

Maybe you should answer the question of WHY the Bush administration LIED as to their claims of the cost of the war on Iraq?
And if you do muster the courage to attempt an answer, keep in mind that Rumsfield is QUOTED as admitting that if the American public KNEW the truth, they would not have supported the war.

Nice diversion, Mikeyy. Now what is the dollar value of freedom? IMO, there is no dollar amount that could ever possibly exceed the freedom that the Iraqi people have gained. The sacrifice we made was well worth every last dime. The closing of the rape rooms, the unplugging of the plastic shredders, the end of the institutionalized torture ans systematic terrorization of the Iraqi is worth every penny. 20 years ago we would have seen liberals walking in circles, carrying signs demanding freedom for the people of Iraq, now all we hear is that it cost too much. Freedom never comes cheaply, it is bought and paid for in blood, cash, lives and national prosperity. It can bankrupt millions, it can destroy nations, it can bring about such upheaval that the people in the midst of it will wonder if it was truly worth it. But, future generations will bear the best fruit of this freedom. The children of Iraq are the ones who will truly see the greatest benefit. And yes, our children will probably still be paying some of the financial cost, but they will also live in a world where terrorists will know that there are people who will fight them, no matter what he cost and that knowledge will be critical to stopping future terrorists from trying to take over soveriegn nations as they did in Afghanistan and failed to do in Iraq. The world will be a better place and the cost will be worth it. You can babble on about the tactics used to move us into a place where we could carry this out, but that takes absolutely nothing away from the undeniable fact that we stopped the terrorists in Iraq, that we liberated millions of people from oppression and that it was all worth it.

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Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

God is a conservative -

Ecclesiastes 10:2--"A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left."

There should be a Sousa march playing behind this...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

15 for 18...
That's an .833 batting average...
Heck, we should get a multi-year multi-million dollar contract for that kind of performance.

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http://thecourier.typepad.com/rightonthemark/

"To educate a man in mind but not in morals is to educate a menace to society." --- Theodore Roosevelt

1) That's the second time you've referred to me as "Mikeyy", so I can't help but presume it's a childish game on your part. Some part of a boring personal attack attempt, although being called "Mikeyy" is hardly an insult.
I'll just point it out that I notice it and move on. You can continue on if you please, but it gains you nothing but a reputation for employing such childish gimmicks.

2) You keep singing the same song without addressing my points.
In fact, you can't address my points, so all you're left with is singing the same tune hoping droning repetition will make it stick in somebody's head like a bad song that people wish they no longer had stuck there...

Let's add some more that you'll ignore.

You keep asking how much should we pay...
I want you to explain WHY are we NOT PAYING IT???

If "freedom" is so cherished and so valued, and blindly giving it to other people is so noble, then WHY has the Bush administration ESPECIALLY chosen to NOT burden the American tax-payers with the price?
Can you tell me how much my taxes have ACTUALLY increased by this war???
And when you can't answer that, can you explain WHY they haven't increased to actually PAY for this war???

And as for your self-proclaimed "noble" goals, why is it such a different tune from Republicans between helping Iraq, with such a HUGE price tag, and Clinton and Kosovo???
Clinton helped save lives, unlike the U.S. efforts in Iraq which has actually INCREASED the death toll / time.
Yet what comments were heard from the prominent Republicans???

"No goal, no objective, not until we have those things and a compelling case is made, then I say, back out of it, because innocent people are going to die for nothing. That's why I'm against it."
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/5/99

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)

"You think Vietnam was bad? Vietnam is nothing next to Kosovo."
-Tony Snow, Fox News 3/24/99
(I think this is my personal favorite, and I would love to see Snow compare the three on the elements.
But alas, such honesty cannot be expected from THAT man...)

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years"
-Joe Scarborough (R-FL)
(And today, McCain doesn't care if it's 100... )

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
-Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W. Bush (R-TX)
I wish we could hold him to his word.

I could go on and on, but what's the point.
You're not going to respond to any of this anyway.
You're just going to tout the "freedom", while ignoring the cost.
And it is PRECISELY that willingness to ignore the VERY REAL complaints of the MAJORITY of Americans who have a problem with this Iraqi war, and with being lied to, and with the bungling of the Executive Republicans that is going to hurt you in continuing elections.
Those that refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it...
... and quite frankly, that's EXACTLY why people like you won't be getting back into office...

Except for the FACT that it was the democrat congress that set up the "benchmarks".

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"Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively and without self delusion---In the long run these are the only people that count."Robert Heinlein

Recheck your "facts" You got the numbers all wrong as usual. We haven't even reached the first trillion dollars yet. And by the way our ENTIRE defense budget is less than 20% of federal expenditures and is the ONLY legitimate federal expense other than the justice system. Check your constitution on this.

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"Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively and without self delusion---In the long run these are the only people that count."Robert Heinlein

Obummer will be the same as Jimmy Carters second term. The difference this time will be that instead of just taking over the US embassy and holding them hostage, Iran will be deploying nuclear bombs and holding the whole world hostage.

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"Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively and without self delusion---In the long run these are the only people that count."Robert Heinlein

Irrelevant.
Like I pointed out, all it talks about is "progress".
Not ACHIEVING the benchmarks, but just "progress".

That's like an alcoholic cutting back on his drinking by a couple of drinks per week claiming "progress" on a goal of stopping drinking.


Never said we did.
But when you buy a car, do you talk about how much money the car ACTUALLY cost?
Or how much money you have paid on it so far?


Pointless nonsequitur.





Reality check.
WHEN did the Iraq war start?
HOW is our economy today?


If that is truly the case, can you explain to me exactly HOW MUCH we are actually paying off in debt on this war?
And HOW MUCH is being transferred to our kids?

The only "foolish" thing here is your comment, ignoring the fact that Bush has driven us DEEPER into debt than we have ever been.


Funny.
In the various quotes about Kosovo, I find over and over again statements on
1) timetables...
2) exit strategy...
3) length of time over there...


I don't know who you're talking about, but that ain't me.
I'm talking about take the five years before the war, and the five years after the war, and compare the death toll.
We've INCREASED the death toll.

That's a fact, and instead of addressing the truth you are trying to obfuscate with a boring lie about something we've never argued about.


You've got this pathetic habit of claiming "cherry pick" for any quote you don't want to deal with.
It's a convenient lie for you, based on no knowledge from you, but presenting the pretense of response.

I challenge you to show ANY of those quotes actually being taken out of context.


$1-2 trillion.
Over 4,000 soldiers so far.
Iraqi death toll has INCREASED since we invaded.
Does that answer the question on how much "freedom" has "cost"?


Pointless ad hominem, while ignoring the REASONS WHY these people condemn the war.

And the funny thing is that people like you will wonder why they are getting voted out of office...
That's the REAL "below average intelligence" problem...