I'm sorry. I can't take the responsibility for Bush being a failure as POTUS. Some guys can do it, some guys can't. Why get bent out of shape about it. I'm not even mad at him. I'm disappointed. Its not the same. I thought he had a beautiful opportunity handed to him as a result of 9-11. Worldwide justification to get those responsible for the worst crime on American soil. But he chose to embark on a mission that he was obviously obsessed with previously. He pushed away the allies support and world sympathy as if they were of no relevance. Which I will point out is BAD leadership. Pakistan was the country spreading nuclear technology. I am so tired of this BS Iraq story about the threat. I never bought in to it. Nether did much of the world. But Pakistan was and is. And its where our real enemy ran. And as I have said a hundred times. We made a tactical decision not to confront Pakistan. And the best why of avoiding that face off we ran to what we thought would be a neocons dream. A simple take down of Iraq. Those are the facts as I have always seen them.

Well, if that is the way you have always seen them I guess there is no evidence in the future that could dissuade you from your beliefs.

That is the sign of what?

Someone who is rigid and will not be confused by changing facts.

Good thing you weren't a commander in Iraq. You might still think we were experiencing no progress even though the Surge plan was creating a marked change in the situation there.

Good thing you aren't a medical doctor or else no matter what the patient's condition was you'd still think he was doing well because you'd have made up your mind. New relevant facts or changes in his condition or tests that showed for the first time that the previous diagnoses were incorrect wouldn't make you change your mind.

Nope. Not you.

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Every step taken toward the installment of Sharia law will be justifiable to the person who values appearance more than freedom and democracy.

Where was my assessment wrong?

No you were dishonest to use pre-surge polls to try and respresent current post surge polls.

His threat to the region, the world and thus the US was the reason the congress made it the official policy of the US to remove him from office.



No they did not, myth created by the leftest media.

And terrorism in general which we know to be true.


The region and the world, which he was.

It didn't cost that to remove Saddam, once removed alQaeda, not the US declared that the front line of the war on terror and we have descimated them there, how much was that worth?


Wrong that we wouldn't find ready to go WMD, not too surprising as they are easily hidden.

But the fact is we were right about everything else.

Over the one question about did he still have ready to go WMD's, the ones that UNSCOM said he still had but they never found them?


Still ignorant about that whole thing too? It wasn't his banner, it was the ships banner. Similar to the ones I saw hanging on the fences at Camp Lejune when I went to greet returning troops.

Have you ever done that, gone to great our returning troops and tell them how much you appreciate their duty?



ROFL ahhh he's dead you know. But before he died he confirmed what we knew, he had every intention of not only rebuilding his WMD arsenal, but making it more deadly and useable by terrorist groups.

I never said anything about "surge", pre or post.
It is your lie to pretend that I did.
Furthermore, it is your lie to claim I didn't give these polls when I did.

Also, I think you're really missing the boat if you think the "surge" has any major effect. People like you don't seem to get that the "surge" or "winning the war" are NOT the real reasons people think poorly of this president.


The "threat" was based on a variety of things, including FALSE claims of WMDs and links to al Qaeda.
The "threat" was based on a false claim that he WAS a threat to the U.S.
Fight them over there so we don't have to fight him over here...

The MAIN IMPORTANT claims of the "threat" were false.



That has got to be one of the DUMBEST things you have ever tried to deny, with one of the DUMBEST excuses you have ever made for doing so.
Are you actually going to lie and claim Bush never said there was a link between Saddam and 9/11?


Yes. The END TOTAL is going to be that much for removing Saddam from office.
The END TOTAL of removing him from office, and all the ramifications we had to deal with since then IS going to be $1-2 trillion.

And as previously pointed out, al Qaeda's presence in Iraq has INCREASED due to our invasion. Saddam was NOT collaborating with al Qaeda.

It's like you're trying to give Jimmy for cleaning up the muddy floor in the kitchen, without acknowledging that Jimmy was the one who drug the mud in in the first place!


There WERE NO WMDs.
Bush has said so himself.
I am amazed at how you repeatedly contradict things that Bush HIMSELF has admitted were wrong.

Moreover, we basically had FULL ACCESS to that country.
To proclaim that he must have hidden some that we can't find is like a kid insisting that the boogeyman must have moved from under the bed to the closet when the parent looks.


Bush was wrong about the 9/11 link.
Bush was wrong about the link to al Qaeda.
We were wrong about every major element.

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66 Have you looked at the investigation as to why our "intelligence" went so wrong?

This question continues to go unanswered.
I'll take your refusal to answer as a "no".
We used intelligence "resources" that many other countries acknowledged were dodgy and THEY didn't trust them.
But they were telling us "bush had wmds", SO WE LISTENED to them.
And other resources which told us he DID NOT have WMDs got ignored.
They got the Plame treatment.

Perhaps I should start a new thread on that...


I never claimed it was his banner.
But not only did he not tell anybody to take it down, he ALSO REPEATED THE PHRASE in HIS OWN SPEECH. A later speech that he gave.


Would you mind substantiating any of that?

And you should have, your polls were not current and you knew it.


And you are totally ignorant of the matter if you think otherwise.


The links to alQaeda and other terrorist groups is without debate as has already been proven to you.

Now tell me what happened to the WMD that UNSCOM said he had, had confirmed he had, but were never found? And be specific, what did Saddam do with them and when did we know it?

And then what about what we did find?

To the world and the US just as claim in the 1998 ILA resolution. That had not changed in 2001.

Nope, he remain a threat just as the Clinton administration had claimed.



Since it is not a lie..............it was not the position of the United States that Saddam had an role in 9/11.



Well DUH alQaeda decided to fight us there rather than in Afghanistan which was to our favor and we defeated them. Saddam's ties to alQaeda and other terrorist groups already proven.


Then why did UNSCOM say there were? How did he manage to use them if he never had any?

And please speak correctly. We did not find any ready to go sarin or biologicals. We did find his progam to research and produce them and his plans to do so.

We didn't find ready to go WMD, even though UNSCOM had documented they existed. So what. New ones are readily produced when you have the equipment, the materials, and the programs to do so...........just as Saddam had...........in violation of the cease fire and UN.

No we did not. Saddam had kicked us and the UN and the inspectors out of the country.

What did it take JUST to get the inspectors back in for their Keystone Kops phony inspections?


No it's like giving a kid 4 years to hid a toybox somewhere in the state of California and then giving you 3 months to find it.


You're wrong because it was not their position.

Nope you are wrong as it has been proven and documented.

One single element.


You said it was his mission accomplished, it was not.

He had not reason to nor requirement to. Why do you insist on belittling the great accomplishment of the sailors and airment who were part of that combat group who were returning with a MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

So what? He didn't use it that day. And post the speech your are referring to, a link.



I have. His interrogation and the documents we have been going through.

What Mid-East country had recently attacked a neighboring country?

What Mid-East country had used WMDS on its citizens & a neighboring country before?

What Mid-East country had tried to assassinate a former U.S. president?

What Mid-East dictator paid the families of suicide bombers killing our allies?

What do you call 500+ munitions containing mustard gas & sarin?

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It's dishonest, based on proven history, to conclude Saddam's Iraq was absolutely no threat.

This is not to say they were the biggest threat.

I still believe our leaders thought this was going to be a warm-up war for the larger Mid-East (Syria, Pakistan, Iran). The problem is that it backfired due to early mismanagement & a growing anti-war sentiment that made it difficult politically to fight the war.

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http://thecourier.typepad.com/rightonthemark/

"To educate a man in mind but not in morals is to educate a menace to society." --- Theodore Roosevelt

fi66, what do you have against the Iraqi people that you would want them to suffer so badly?? These folks were in a bad way - terrorized by their own gov't, afraid to oppose their gov't because of the threat of death/torture of their families, living in horrific conditions that were forced upon them - and yet you would have us leave them in this mess. Why is that?? Where is the compassion for the oppressed that the left has been so proud of??

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Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

God is a conservative -

Ecclesiastes 10:2--"A wise man's heart inclines him to the right, but a fool's heart to the left."

I could turn the same strawman against some people here regarding Katrina.
Or against George Bush for that matter...

But the reality of the situation is that I am NOT saying ANYTHING different from what the REPUBLICANS were saying after the first Iraq war.
George Bush Sr.
Cheney.
etc, etc, etc...

Maybe you should be asking them WHY did they hate the Iraqi people soo much that they wanted them to suffer so badly...


I am struck with one of two possibilities which could lead you to that question.
You are entrenching yourself WILLINGLY in mindless propaganda, only pretending that there are two possibilities...
Or you actually think that your question is a valid one...
Either way, it's a dead end debating with you cause you won't be willing or able to admit what's REALLY going on here...


WHERE is the compassion of the right?
The Iraqis were in a WORSE situation back towards the first Iraq war, but George Bush Sr and Cheney and many other Republicans abandoned them anyways...
I thought the right was supposed to be the home of Jesus Christ, helping others.
And they turned their back on them????
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