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US Congress & The Legislative Branch Discuss A small victory for "congress shall make no law" at the Political Forums; I call it "congress shall make no law" because some people get their panties in a bind when people say ...

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Old 11-10-2009, 08:08 PM
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Default A small victory for "congress shall make no law"

I call it "congress shall make no law" because some people get their panties in a bind when people say "separation of church and state" because it isn't worded *EXACTLY* the same but has the same meaning...

Unfortunately, Florida managed to get their plates:





But the small victory was in South Carolina:

Quote:
A US judge has ordered South Carolina not to issue a vehicle number plate with a Christian image and slogan.

The state legislature had approved a licence plate with a cross in front of a stained glass window and the words "I Believe" written along the top.

District Judge Cameron Currie said that the plate violated the First Amendment, which enshrines the separation of church and state.
BBC NEWS | Americas | US judge bans Christian car plate

If you want your car to have religious symbols on it, you shouldn't rely on the state to do it, you can put stickers on your car if you want.

EDIT: Just wanted to add something to this.. If someone wants a custom plate to have a word of their choice, the state shouldn't be able to stop them from using religious references, but a full-fledged plate design with religious symbols, sorry, that shouldn't be something the government should be in the business of doing.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: A small victory for "congress shall make no law"

You may be right, but for the wrong reasoning...

"congress shall make no law" is in the US Constitution, but keep in mind that that means the FEDERAL government...

The FEDERAL government doesn't issue these license plates...

STATES do...

In other words, the issue of these license plates has NOTHING to do with the FEDERAL government because the power of issuing them is given to them by the 10th Amendment. ("The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.")

Now you MAY be right if the STATE constitution of the STATE in question happens to have wording to the same effect, but that should be decided by a STATE judge...NOT a FEDERAL judge...

But either way the ruling is wrong in this case because Cameron Currie is a FEDERAL judge...

In this case, the FEDERAL judge should say "What South Carolina does with THEIR license plates is THEIR business, and if THEIR judges says it's OK, then it's OK, and if THEIR judges say it's not, then it's not. But it should be decided in a FEDERAL court."

That what Judge Currie SHOULD'VE done, and I believe this will will be thrown out on appeal in about 12 seconds...
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: A small victory for "congress shall make no law"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
I call it "congress shall make no law" because some people get their panties in a bind when people say "separation of church and state" because it isn't worded *EXACTLY* the same but has the same meaning...

Unfortunately, Florida managed to get their plates:





But the small victory was in South Carolina:



BBC NEWS | Americas | US judge bans Christian car plate

If you want your car to have religious symbols on it, you shouldn't rely on the state to do it, you can put stickers on your car if you want.

EDIT: Just wanted to add something to this.. If someone wants a custom plate to have a word of their choice, the state shouldn't be able to stop them from using religious references, but a full-fledged plate design with religious symbols, sorry, that shouldn't be something the government should be in the business of doing.
A uroloogist in town has personalized plates that say:
PP DOC

If he can have those I don't see why a person of religious persuasion can't have whatever they want as long as it doesn't look gory or too sexually explicit.
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Old 11-10-2009, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: A small victory for "congress shall make no law"

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
A uroloogist in town has personalized plates that say:
PP DOC

If he can have those I don't see why a person of religious persuasion can't have whatever they want as long as it doesn't look gory or too sexually explicit.
I already said that people should be able to have whatever personalized text they want. This ruling isn't about personalized text, it's about graphics, like getting the plate with a sunset or something vs. the standard issue plate--a religious plate shouldn't be one of those choices. Just think about if that was applied evenly--and they put out an Islam plate, or a Wiccan plate, or a Satanist plate.

Text is one thing, the full graphic design of plates is another thing altogether.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: A small victory for "congress shall make no law"

I agree with redd.
It's not a federal matter.

The judge is...
a) a box of rocks
b) an activist
c) both of the above
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: A small victory for "congress shall make no law"

I have no problem with state religious tags, however... they need to have all options available or it would be unfair. That would be the difficult part for them, I would think.
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Old 11-11-2009, 09:50 AM
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Default Re: A small victory for "congress shall make no law"

Ask a LEO about these "picture plates" and they'll almost universally tell you the same thing - they hate them. IMO, licence plates should be STRICTLY functional, not decorative. Drop all the stupid sunset, skyline, etc. plates and stick to a plate design that is easy for LE to read and leave it at that. The same goes for personalized plates (and yeah I had a set when I was younger).
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: A small victory for "congress shall make no law"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
I already said that people should be able to have whatever personalized text they want. This ruling isn't about personalized text, it's about graphics, like getting the plate with a sunset or something vs. the standard issue plate--a religious plate shouldn't be one of those choices. Just think about if that was applied evenly--and they put out an Islam plate, or a Wiccan plate, or a Satanist plate.

Text is one thing, the full graphic design of plates is another thing altogether.
As far as I see, no law has been made respecting or regarding a religion at all. I see an option for personalization of license plates that no one is forced into, isn't being subsidized as the citizen pays for it, and isn't being endorsed or discouraged by the state. There was a market and the market won.

I see nothing wrong with this at all.
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: A small victory for "congress shall make no law"

Quote:
Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
I have no problem with state religious tags, however... they need to have all options available or it would be unfair. That would be the difficult part for them, I would think.
Why? Why do they need to offer options that there is no market for?
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: A small victory for "congress shall make no law"

Soon all plates will be replaced with GPS transponders anyway.
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