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US Congress & The Legislative Branch Discuss TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by saltwn TRUMP & RYAN TO DISMANTLE SOCIAL SECURITY - AARP Online Community Sneaky bustards You post an ...

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Old 04-11-2017, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
You post an article under the thread title:

TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

Then proceed with an AARP article starting with the line:

Congress is considering.

Sneaky bustards.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Virtually everybody's thinking changes, once they reach the age to participate in the government programs, if they hadn't planned ahead for themselves without including anything that came down the governmental pipeline. It's glaringly obvious that certain posters are all about 'getting theirs' now that they qualify.

....
yes and if the deregulation of a certain group of lobbied officials hadn't screwed the pooch in the 80s and in a bigger way leading up to 2008 those sponges would all still have 401K's

This is not a one time thing.
My generation retirement went, the same people or their kids will take yours.
Good luck with your changing thoughts
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
You post an article under the thread title:

TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

Then proceed with an AARP article starting with the line:

Congress is considering.

Sneaky bustards.
you are a trusting soul
some would even say gullible
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:59 AM
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Default Re: TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
yes and if the deregulation of a certain group of lobbied officials hadn't screwed the pooch in the 80s and in a bigger way leading up to 2008 those sponges would all still have 401K's

This is not a one time thing.
My generation retirement went, the same people or their kids will take yours.
Good luck with your changing thoughts
You are aware of who 'deregulated' what in our economy, yes?

Those who figure the government is the only source of their retirement, or even the primary source, have only to look at history to see what kind of failure that would be.

All one's eggs in one basket makes a good omelet.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:27 AM
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Default Re: TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

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Originally Posted by 300 H and H View Post
For decades, Republicans in Washington and Wall Street bankers have told us that Social Security is going broke―even though Social Security has a $2.8 trillion surplus and can pay out 100% of benefits for the next 17 years and over 75% of benefits owed after that.

The above from the article at the link...

So were is the Truth? You hear from one side it is going broke. The other says lots of money...

If Social security can only fund 75% in 17 years, I would lean towards the leaner side of the equation. In 17 years I would like to have 100% benefits not 75%, and the rest goes to some one else.

IF Trump and the Republicans actually do away Social Security, they are done in 4 years... I think they know that, and have something else in mind. This could be just another hit piece written by a sore azzed looser Democrat as well.. So were is the truth?

Regards, Kirk
The truth, as usual, is in the middle.

The Republicans won't end Social Security in four years. They will effectively end it down the road in 15 years or so by gutting it and won't be held accountable for that in 2020 or even in 2032.

Based upon current projected revenues there will be a shortfall of 25% in 17 years but that could easily be offset by one of three means or a combination of two or more of those. First is simply increasing the tax rate on labor to increase revenues. Next is increasing immigration that adds to the number of those contributing to increase the revenue to the Social Security Trust Fund. The third is to lift the cap on the Social Security contribution and applying the tax to all earned and unearned income that would dramatically increase the revenue. Any one of these, or any combination of these, would provide the necessary revenue to fully fund Social Security,

I've proposed what I consider to be a better plan to privatize Social Security but it would still require fully funding it for 45 years into the future because privatization has to be based upon the entire working career of the person that is about 45 years in duration. Privatization also has to be based upon the minimum wage income earners and not the middle or upper income households.

The proposal to eliminate the FICA tax and to use general tax revenues to fully fund Social Security would almost work but not with Republicans that refuse to collect enough in taxes to fully fund authorized expenditures. That proposition only works of taxes are directly connected to authorized expenditures so that deficits don't exist. Republicans have this backwards because they want to tie expenditures to tax revenues and that ignores the necessity for the expenditures, Necessary expenditures must always be funded.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:30 AM
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Default Re: TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
yes and if the deregulation of a certain group of lobbied officials hadn't screwed the pooch in the 80s and in a bigger way leading up to 2008 those sponges would all still have 401K's

This is not a one time thing.
My generation retirement went, the same people or their kids will take yours.
Good luck with your changing thoughts
There you go, the perpetual victim who refuses to look at the facts. SS was doomed to failure when it was passed but the "caring" Democrats didn't let a little thing like fiscal responsibility stand in the way of their vote buying.

Ponzi schemes like SS always fail eventually. This one is no different .
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:53 AM
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Default Re: TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Those who figure the government is the only source of their retirement, or even the primary source, have only to look at history to see what kind of failure that would be.
The reason that Social Security exists is based upon history. History shows that roughly 50% of the people don't earn enough income during their working career to build the financial assets necessary to provide income when they become too old to work.

It's all well and good to state that people should be investing for their future retirement but when they don't receive enough compensation from their labor to afford that then it's a failure of capitalism.

In the 1930's it was found that half of the American people that reached retirement age did not have the financial assets necessary to provide the income necessary for retirement. In addressing this historical problem the Democrats under FDR got it half right and half wrong.

They got it right by correctly identifying this was a joint failure by both the employers and the employees. The employers weren't providing enough income and the employees weren't investing because of a lack of income. The Social Security tax where each contribute equally is based upon this shared responsibility.

They got it wrong by addressing the income necessity that was the symptom of the problem as opposed to the building of the assets necessary to provide the income. You don't fix a problem by addressing the symptom.

We know they got it wrong because in the 1960's the same problem returned with health insurance at retirement. Roughly 50% of households couldn't afford health insurance when they retired because they didn't have the financial assets to provide the income necessary to fund the insurance. Democrats under LBJ got it half right again by the co-funding responsibility of the employer and employee and got it half wrong again by providing the insurance under Medicare as opposed to building the personal assets of the workers to provide the income to purchase insurance at retirement.

We see this same problem with Republicans in addressing "welfare spending" because the spending is a symptom of the problem. The problem is poverty so to reduce the welfare spending we need to reduce the poverty.

Addressing symptoms as opposed to the problems never works. It just allows the problem to get worse over time. We're seeing that with Social Security, Medicare, and Welfare in the United States as the problem behind the spending keeps driving the spending up.
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Gartner states Trump's public behavior meets the diagnostic criteria for "malignant narcissism" which include anti-social behavior, sadism, aggressiveness, paranoia and grandiosity. "Alternative Facts" refers to the delusional world of Donald Trump.
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
you are a trusting soul
some would even say gullible
I think you missed the point.

Your article starts with garbage in. I have no reason to believe that the result will not be garbage out.

Last edited by jimbo; 04-12-2017 at 08:17 AM..
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The truth, as usual, is in the middle.

The Republicans won't end Social Security in four years. They will effectively end it down the road in 15 years or so by gutting it and won't be held accountable for that in 2020 or even in 2032.

Based upon current projected revenues there will be a shortfall of 25% in 17 years but that could easily be offset by one of three means or a combination of two or more of those. First is simply increasing the tax rate on labor to increase revenues. Next is increasing immigration that adds to the number of those contributing to increase the revenue to the Social Security Trust Fund. The third is to lift the cap on the Social Security contribution and applying the tax to all earned and unearned income that would dramatically increase the revenue. Any one of these, or any combination of these, would provide the necessary revenue to fully fund Social Security,

I've proposed what I consider to be a better plan to privatize Social Security but it would still require fully funding it for 45 years into the future because privatization has to be based upon the entire working career of the person that is about 45 years in duration. Privatization also has to be based upon the minimum wage income earners and not the middle or upper income households.

The proposal to eliminate the FICA tax and to use general tax revenues to fully fund Social Security would almost work but not with Republicans that refuse to collect enough in taxes to fully fund authorized expenditures. That proposition only works of taxes are directly connected to authorized expenditures so that deficits don't exist. Republicans have this backwards because they want to tie expenditures to tax revenues and that ignores the necessity for the expenditures, Necessary expenditures must always be funded.
Your logic fails. I wasn't aware there is a tax on labor. There is a tax on income, often a tax on the results of labor. But a labor tax? Increasing immigration? Considering that most immigration, legal or illegal, falls at the bottom of the economic ladder, Immigrants end up being a burden on our systems, not a source of income. Illegal kids in the school systems are a problem for many locations. So no adding to the 50% who pay far less in taxes than they consume in benefits.

So your plan involves more redistribution of wealth. Why is that not a surprise? Tax the rich. Give it to the poor. That's what got the SS system in trouble in the first place.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: TRUMP & RYAN to dismantle SOCIAL SECURITY

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The reason that Social Security exists is based upon history. History shows that roughly 50% of the people don't earn enough income during their working career to build the financial assets necessary to provide income when they become too old to work.

It's all well and good to state that people should be investing for their future retirement but when they don't receive enough compensation from their labor to afford that then it's a failure of capitalism.

In the 1930's it was found that half of the American people that reached retirement age did not have the financial assets necessary to provide the income necessary for retirement. In addressing this historical problem the Democrats under FDR got it half right and half wrong.

They got it right by correctly identifying this was a joint failure by both the employers and the employees. The employers weren't providing enough income and the employees weren't investing because of a lack of income. The Social Security tax where each contribute equally is based upon this shared responsibility.

They got it wrong by addressing the income necessity that was the symptom of the problem as opposed to the building of the assets necessary to provide the income. You don't fix a problem by addressing the symptom.

We know they got it wrong because in the 1960's the same problem returned with health insurance at retirement. Roughly 50% of households couldn't afford health insurance when they retired because they didn't have the financial assets to provide the income necessary to fund the insurance. Democrats under LBJ got it half right again by the co-funding responsibility of the employer and employee and got it half wrong again by providing the insurance under Medicare as opposed to building the personal assets of the workers to provide the income to purchase insurance at retirement.

We see this same problem with Republicans in addressing "welfare spending" because the spending is a symptom of the problem. The problem is poverty so to reduce the welfare spending we need to reduce the poverty.

Addressing symptoms as opposed to the problems never works. It just allows the problem to get worse over time. We're seeing that with Social Security, Medicare, and Welfare in the United States as the problem behind the spending keeps driving the spending up.
I'm aware of the origin of most of the governmental programs, but you've added the slant that employers are fiscally responsible for people's financial condition, both while working and after. That is a picture that has been fed out for years, hence some believing that employers owe people a 'living wage'.

It's not a matter of 'Republicans' addressing welfare spending, it's the lack of government addressing the waste and fraud within the programs. I have no issue with temporarily helping those who have stumbled, but those who choose not to work who can work, but instead take what they can from the programs, are the actual drain.

Poverty is subjective to some extent. While people are now constantly fed statements that cause divisiveness regarding 'income inequality', and evil corporations, instead of offered opportunities that can help them increase their income through training programs.

Contrary to some opinions, there are no Americans 'starving', many have health issues from malnutrition, regardless of their actual body weight. Some households have 'food insecurity' issues, but the billboards claim 1 in 5 children... as with many things in the now, hyperbole and shock value are the rage, instead of facts.
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