Abortion Battle Heats Up on the Hill

Comet · #1 (**permalink**) 12-05-2011, 09:12 PM

Usually I am not as simplistic, but quite frankly, Mr. Trent Franks is a moron.

The Prenatal NonDiscrimination Act (PreNDA)? Really? This is what you come up with in your spare time?

Republican Franks seems to want to ban abortions if that decision was based on the unborn's sex or race.

Prenatal discrimination? Is he serious?

Thank goodness this bill has zero chance of passing.

Mr. Franks is one of the many types of people in politics that is bad for politics.

Quote:

Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz., an outspoken pro-life advocate, is preparing to do battle again on Capitol Hill.

On Tuesday, he'll chair a House hearing in support of his latest legislative effort, the Prenatal NonDiscrimination Act (PreNDA). The measure would ban abortions done on the basis of gender or race.

"It would simply say that you cannot discriminate against the unborn by subjecting them to an abortion based on their race or sex," Franks says.

He points to a finding by the Guttmacher Institute: "...the abortion rate for black women is almost five times that for white women." Franks also believes that sex-selection abortions are on the rise in the U.S. and notes a Zogby International poll that found 86 percent of those surveyed believed gender-based abortion choices should be illegal.

Pro-choice advocates say PreNDA is an "anti-choice" measure. Nancy Northup, President of Center for Reproductive Rights, calls it a "trumped up bill for a trumped up problem," and says it's a ridiculous waste of congressional resources at a time when the U.S. economy is faltering.

"This bill is a cynical and offensive attempt to evoke race and sex discrimination when actually it's about taking women's rights away," said Northup.

PreNDA contains both civil penalties and jail time for those who violate the ban, but not the women who seek or obtain abortions. Franks says he believes women who find themselves with an unintended pregnancy are "victims" who need help in the midst of a crisis, not punishment.

However, those who perform abortions done solely for sex- or race-selection purposes could face fines and up to five years in prison.

The bill will be vetted during a hearing in the House on Tuesday, which is slated to include testimony from a number of experts. Franks says the bill currently has about 60 co-sponsors and he's hoping to add more. "I would hope that even my friends on the left would be able to say 'No, this can't be who we are.'"

Critics say the bill has no chance of being passed this term. Even so, Franks says he hopes it will at least spark important conversations.

Abortion Battle Heats Up On The Hill | Fox News

skrekk · #2 (**permalink**) 12-05-2011, 09:40 PM

That's astonishingly stupid on so many levels, but especially the part about the doctor facing civil penalties and jail time based on the motives of the woman seeking the abortion.

saltwn · #3 (**permalink**) 12-05-2011, 10:05 PM

When they first started having them almost no black or Hispanic women participated. It was a middle class white woman's procedure as it had been before legalization.
I guess it's one of the "perks" of climbing the socio economic ladder.

I wish someone would attack abortion as birth control as discriminatory against life. But then that would be too hard for the brain dead congress.

rivrrat · #4 (**permalink**) 12-05-2011, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

When they first started having them almost no black or Hispanic women participated. It was a middle class white woman's procedure as it had been before legalization.

They "first started having them" thousands of years ago. I'm not sure we have statistics for that.

Quote:

I guess it's one of the "perks" of climbing the socio economic ladder.

I wish someone would attack abortion as birth control as discriminatory against life. But then that would be too hard for the brain dead congress.

You mean like eating food? Killing our food is pretty discriminatory against life too.

1069 · #5 (**permalink**) 12-05-2011, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

When they first started having them almost no black or Hispanic women participated. It was a middle class white woman's procedure as it had been before legalization.

Really? I didn't know they had a middle class back in prehistoric times.

Did they all drive around in stone SUVs that they pedaled with their feet?

Quote:

I guess it's one of the "perks" of climbing the socio economic ladder.
I wish someone would attack abortion as birth control as discriminatory against life. But then that would be too hard for the brain dead congress.

You are aware, I hope, that abortion has been going on since the dawn of civilization- it was common in ancient Greece, Rome, etc; throughout the middle ages, various Catholic popes changed the Church's position on it repeatedly (most deemed it allowable until "quickening", which occurs between four and five months; fetuses were considered by the Church not to be ensouled until that time).
Although it has been a universally common practice since the beginning of recorded history and probably even before that, it was only ever "illegal" for less than a century- from the mid to late 1800s (Victorian era) until the early 1970s.
That was a social experiment that failed, similar to Prohibition. And it is about as likely to ever be repeated as Prohibition is.

Comet · #6 (**permalink**) 12-05-2011, 11:13 PM

Abortion History

Quote:

Induced abortion has long history, and can be traced back to civilizations as varied as China under Shennong (c. 2700 BCE), Ancient Egypt with its Ebers Papyrus (c. 1550 BCE), and the Roman Empire in the time of Juvenal (c. 200 CE). There is evidence to suggest that pregnancies were terminated through a number of methods, including the administration of abortifacient herbs, the use of sharpened implements, the application of abdominal pressure, and other techniques.

Some medical scholars and abortion opponents have suggested that the Hippocratic Oath forbade Ancient Greek physicians from performing abortions; other scholars disagree with this interpretation, and note the medical texts of Hippocratic Corpus contain descriptions of abortive techniques and notes on the risks they posed to a woman's health. In Christianity, Pope Sixtus V (1585–90) is noted as the first Pope to declare that abortion is homicide regardless of the stage of pregnancy; the Church had previously been divided on whether if believed that abortion was murder, and did not begin vigorously opposing abortion until the 19th century. Islamic tradition has traditionally permitted abortion up until a point in time when Muslims believe the soul enters the fetus, considered by various theologians to be at conception, 40 days after conception, 120 days after conception, or quickening. However, abortion is largely heavily restricted or forbidden in areas of high Islamic faith such as the Middle East and North Africa.

In Europe and North America, abortion techniques advanced starting in the 17th century. However, conservatism by most physicians with regards to sexual matters prevented the wide expansion of safe abortion techniques. Other medical practitioners in addition to some physicians advertised their services, and they were not widely regulated until the 19th century, when the practice was banned in both the United States and the United Kingdom. Church groups as well as physicians were highly influential in anti-abortion movements. In the US, abortion was more dangerous than childbirth until about 1930 when incremental improvements in abortion procedures relative to childbirth made abortion safer. The Soviet Union (1919), Iceland (1935) and Sweden (1938) were among the first countries to legalize certain or all forms of abortion. In 1935 Nazi Germany, a law was passed permitting abortions for those deemed "hereditarily ill," while women considered of German stock were specifically prohibited from having abortions. Beginning in the second half of the twentieth century, abortion was legalized in a greater number of countries.

Abortion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

saltwn · #7 (**permalink**) 12-05-2011, 11:39 PM

Excuse me. I thought you all understood I was addressing the thread subject which concerns legal abortions. White (or social top of the heap in whatever culture) middle class ladies got them before legalization easier because they had more access to money and when insurance covered d &cs got them and insurance was billed for a d &c. (not saying all dc were abortions). mother was a pn who was former wac who knew how to keep her mouth shut. nurses were trained in a military/church fashion in other words follow orders/don't ask questions. she delivered a uterus once that was still kicking, remained stalwart during the procedure and promptly vomited when she got home.

AZRWinger · #8 (**permalink**) 12-06-2011, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skrekk

That's astonishingly stupid on so many levels, but especially the part about the doctor facing civil penalties and jail time based on the motives of the woman seeking the abortion.

Oh you are so right. We couldn't possibly allow any laws that might inhibit the implementation of a Chinese-style birth control regime where the female unborn child is considered disposable in the public interest. Of course the abortion rights absolutists will brook no restriction on the "right" to slaughter the unborn human.

catusfelidae · #9 (**permalink**) 12-06-2011, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skrekk

That's astonishingly stupid on so many levels, but especially the part about the doctor facing civil penalties and jail time based on the motives of the woman seeking the abortion.

It's designed to 'discourage' doctors from performing abortions for fear of prosecution.

GottaGo · #10 (**permalink**) 12-06-2011, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by catusfelidae

It's designed to 'discourage' doctors from performing abortions for fear of prosecution.

Point on.

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