Abortion Battle Heats Up on the Hill - Page 9

rivrrat · #81 (**permalink**) 12-06-2011, 10:32 PM

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Originally Posted by saltwn

Hmm we see this very differently. To me that's like saying you have the right to cut off your own arm.

And I do.

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Cancer is an anomaly. Most people do not have cancer. Most people do have the ability to breath , pee and procreate. Lotta difference there.

No, not much difference with regard to what we're discussing.

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Ok Jane of the jungle, have at it. I think it unwise.

you think it unwise for people to make decisions about their damn bodies?

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Birth control pills and shots. If they don't work that's just how life is. Adopt out. Plenty of people will pay the expenses and then some. But don't fluck up your body out of some false sense of pride.

What is ****ing up my body?

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Not at the rate that now takes place.

Proof?

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There will be social as well as physical /mental ramifications I believe. Look at how this has already changed the mind set of young ladies. I was surprised to learn how some of you guys felt about it.

Indeed. Women are empowered. It's a wonderful thing.

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Put another way, "It just ain't natural." Now do you get my drift?

No, I don't. It happens in nature, therefore it is natural.

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It interrupts.

So do antibiotics.

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It hurts. There are always consequences.

No, it doesn't and no there aren't.

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Like many women used to get a hysterectomy as a normal thing following a fad (insurance had a lot to do with it). It was after all a cure for so many things especially if you were coming on menopause anyway, why not just relieve yourself of the misery?

Why in ****ing hell would I want to do that?

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Just think about it. If it's there, it's there for a reason.

If what's there, it's there for a reason? What reason?

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And if it isn't making you ill, leave it alone and give it away.

Huh?

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Somethings you just have to do whether you want to or not.

Not in the case of pregnancy I sure as **** don't. It's easy to put a stop to that nonsense.

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It's best that way. Unless it's a mental or physical thing like I said earlier. And sometimes people need to be inconvenienced. It builds character.

LMFAO That has to be about the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen you post on this forum. It's so far out there, I don't even ****ing know how to respond to it.

saltwn · #82 (**permalink**) 12-06-2011, 11:05 PM

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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn
Hmm we see this very differently. To me that's like saying you have the right to cut off your own arm.

And I do.

And if you did it would be kinda whacked

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Cancer is an anomaly. Most people do not have cancer. Most people do have the ability to breath , pee and procreate. Lotta difference there.

No, not much difference with regard to what we're discussing.

well yes there is a difference. one occurs for a reason that benefits our human species; the other for a species of cancer.

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Ok Jane of the jungle, have at it. I think it unwise.

you think it unwise for people to make decisions about their damn bodies?

I think there are times when do-it-yourself is taken to the extreme.

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Birth control pills and shots. If they don't work that's just how life is. Adopt out. Plenty of people will pay the expenses and then some. But don't fluck up your body out of some false sense of pride.

What is ****ing up my body?

interrupting a pregnancy. how many procedures do you know or drugs that have come back to haunt us? It's like getting mad at your breasts and cutting them off for no good reason.

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Not at the rate that now takes place.

Proof?

You doubt more people obtain abortions than once upon a time? Why would you doubt it? It's a racket nowadays.

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There will be social as well as physical /mental ramifications I believe. Look at how this has already changed the mind set of young ladies. I was surprised to learn how some of you guys felt about it.

Indeed. Women are empowered. It's a wonderful thing.

Women are lazy and no longer willing to face reality so they invent one imho.

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Put another way, "It just ain't natural." Now do you get my drift?

No, I don't. It happens in nature, therefore it is natural.

You mean spontaneous abortion? That usually takes place because something was wrong with the embryo or the mother.

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It interrupts.

So do antibiotics.

Again the symbiotic state of the body is to be free of disease.

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It hurts. There are always consequences.

No, it doesn't and no there aren't.

It hurts cells. Yours and the fetus'. And yes there are always consequences to interrupting the natural flow of life.
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Like many women used to get a hysterectomy as a normal thing following a fad (insurance had a lot to do with it). It was after all a cure for so many things especially if you were coming on menopause anyway, why not just relieve yourself of the misery?

Why in ****ing hell would I want to do that?

I never said you did. Many women did and still do to cure many things before considering the alternatives which are usually to put up with a little pain and or discomfort for a period of time and maybe take some herbs.

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Just think about it. If it's there, it's there for a reason.

If what's there, it's there for a reason? What reason?

Everything that lives. Even a twig of a tree.

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And if it isn't making you ill, leave it alone and give it away.

Huh?

close your mouth ; before a fly buzzes in. OK I had to sday that. I don't know why you said huh

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Somethings you just have to do whether you want to or not.

Not in the case of pregnancy I sure as **** don't. It's easy to put a stop to that nonsense.

If you are so adverse to the condition you have your reason right there.

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It's best that way. Unless it's a mental or physical thing like I said earlier. And sometimes people need to be inconvenienced. It builds character.

LMFAO That has to be about the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen you post on this forum. It's so far out there, I don't even ****ing know how to respond to it.

Maybe you have enough character

But yes every little step we take makes us who we are. But just because you don't want to be a mom doesn't make abortion a good means of birth control. In fact it is a stupid reckless form of birth control.

rivrrat · #83 (**permalink**) 12-06-2011, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

And if you did it would be kinda whacked

well yes there is a difference. one occurs for a reason that benefits our human species; the other for a species of cancer.

And?

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I think there are times when do-it-yourself is taken to the extreme.

What 'do-it-yourself'?

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interrupting a pregnancy. how many procedures do you know or drugs that have come back to haunt us?

Like I said, been going on for thousands of years.

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It's like getting mad at your breasts and cutting them off for no good reason.

No, it's not.
It's like.... having an abortion.
Unless you think a fetus is actually a part of the woman's body?

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You doubt more people obtain abortions than once upon a time? Why would you doubt it? It's a racket nowadays.

A racket? That doesn't even make sense. Medical procedures are a 'racket'? LOL

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Women are lazy and no longer willing to face reality so they invent one imho.

What reality are they not willing to face? What reality are they inventing?

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You mean spontaneous abortion? That usually takes place because something was wrong with the embryo or the mother.

No, I'm talking about anything. Everything that happens, happens in nature since everything is nature. I am a part of nature, therefore anything I do is, by definition, natural.

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Again the symbiotic state of the body is to be free of disease.

And?

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It hurts cells. Yours and the fetus'. And yes there are always consequences to interrupting the natural flow of life.

What "natural flow"? And what are these consequences? And whose ****ing business is it of anyone elses if someone has consequences to their actions?

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Everything that lives. Even a twig of a tree.

So then that infection in my body is "there for a reason". Ditto for the cancer. Better not interrupt the flow of life by killing them!

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If you are so adverse to the condition you have your reason right there.

That doesn't make sense.

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Maybe you have enough character

But yes every little step we take makes us who we are. But just because you don't want to be a mom doesn't make abortion a good means of birth control.

Abortion is a good means of birth control no matter what the reason.

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In fact it is a stupid reckless form of birth control.

Not stupid or reckless. Far from it. Stupid and reckless would be to give birth to a child you don't want, don't love, and can't afford.

cnredd · #84 (**permalink**) 12-07-2011, 02:14 AM

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Originally Posted by catusfelidae

It's designed to 'discourage' doctors from performing abortions for fear of prosecution.

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Originally Posted by GottaGo

Point on.

Far from it...It's to prevent this disgusting crap...

Sex-Selective Abortions Come Home

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“There is such a thing as too many daughters, but not too many sons,” Dr. Sunita Puri was told by the Asian-Indian women she was interviewing.

The physician, who practices in the Bay Area, wanted to find out why so many immigrant Indian women in the United States were so eager to find out the sex of their unborn children, and why so many of them choose abortion when they found out they were carrying a girl.

What she discovered over the course of 65 interviews conducted over several years profoundly shocked her. Fully 89 percent of the women carrying girls opted for an abortion, and nearly half had previously aborted girls.

Puri’s report, published in Social Science and Medicine this last April, makes for grim reading. Women told Puri of their guilt over their sex-selection abortions, how they felt that they were unable to “save” their daughters. Even the women who turned out to be carrying boys this time around could not shake their remorse over having earlier aborted daughters in this deadly game of reproductive roulette.

They also made clear that they were not free actors when it came to reproductive “choice.” Many, when it was learned that they were carrying girls, became the victims of family violence. Some — in an effort to make them miscarry — had been slapped and shoved around by angry husbands and in-laws, or even kicked in the stomach. Others were denied food, water, and rest in order to coerce them into aborting their unwanted girl babies.

Whether such brutality is common is an open question. That sex-selective abortion is widely practiced among certain Asian-American communities is not.

Jason Abrevaya of the University of Texas analyzed U.S. birth data and found unusually high boy-birth percentages after 1980 among later children (most notably third and fourth children) born to Chinese and Asian-Indian mothers. Moreover, using maternally linked data from California, he found that Asian-Indian mothers are significantly more likely both to have a terminated pregnancy and to give birth to a son when they have previously only given birth to girls.

Columbia University economists Douglas Almond and Lena Edlund also found clear evidence of sex-selective abortions in what they called “son-biased sex ratios,” that is, a higher ratio of boys to girls than would occur in nature. Looking at the sex ratio at birth among U.S.-born children of Chinese, Korean, and Asian-Indian parents, they found that first-borns showed normal sex ratios at birth. But if the first child was a girl, the sex ratio jumped to 117, and if the first two children were girls, then the sex ratio jumped to 151. That is to say, for every 151 boys, there were only 100 hundred surviving girls. The rest had been eliminated.

This is not just misogyny; it is misogyny that kills.

Racism kills as well, to judge from the fact that the abortion rate among blacks is about five times higher than the American average. Blacks are only 12 percent of the population but have 37 percent of the abortions. This suggests that their abortions, too, are more than just a matter of personal choice.

We have been told by the self-described “pro-choice” movement that women who go in for abortions do so because they (not their husbands, in-laws, or kinship group) have decided not to continue their pregnancies. If this turns out not to be true, and others bend you to their prejudices where gender and race are concerned, then the pro-choice argument evaporates.

What we are then left with is discrimination, pure and blatant, on the basis of sex and race. If the child is male or white, it will likely live. If the child is female or black, it may die.

The obvious solution, according to Arizona congressman Trent Franks (Ariz.) is to ban sex- and race-selective abortion. This week he introduced a bill, called the Prenatal Nondiscrimination Act, or PreNDA for short, to do just that.

The bill declares that an abortion done for reasons of sex or race selection is a violation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and prohibits doctors from carrying out such abortions. Those who coerce women into a sex- or race-based abortion can be sued by their victims, and organizations that solicit or accept funds to perform such abortions will be in violation of the law.

This reasonable effort to reign in discriminatory abortions has been mischaracterized by the National Organization of Women as an “attempt to restrict healthcare for women of color.”

What it is really about is allowing Indian, Chinese, Korean, and other women the freedom to have the babies of their choosing. Isn’t that what “reproductive choice” is supposed to be all about?

catusfelidae · #85 (**permalink**) 12-07-2011, 11:18 AM

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Originally Posted by cnredd

Far from it...It's to prevent this disgusting crap...

Sex-Selective Abortions Come Home

'fraid not. A woman does not have to give a reason for having an abortion.

rivrrat · #86 (**permalink**) 12-07-2011, 11:19 AM

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Originally Posted by cnredd

Far from it...It's to prevent this disgusting crap...

Sex-Selective Abortions Come Home

Dead is dead, doesn't matter why. If a woman chooses to abort because she doesn't want a kid, the fetus is just as dead as it is if she chooses to abort because she doesn't want a male kid.

Her reasons are her own, and not relevant to ANYONE ELSE.

saltwn · #87 (**permalink**) 12-07-2011, 11:59 AM

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Originally Posted by rivrrat

Dead is dead, doesn't matter why. If a woman chooses to abort because she doesn't want a kid, the fetus is just as dead as it is if she chooses to abort because she doesn't want a male kid.

Her reasons are her own, and not relevant to ANYONE ELSE.

Aha! But it does matter. It changes the demographics and socioeconomic status of generations. "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world", and the brain that guides that hand needs to be mindful of that.

rivrrat · #88 (**permalink**) 12-07-2011, 12:04 PM

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Originally Posted by saltwn

Aha! But it does matter. It changes the demographics and socioeconomic status of generations. "The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world", and the brain that guides that hand needs to be mindful of that.

Not so much

1069 · #89 (**permalink**) 12-07-2011, 12:18 PM

So far, I'm seeing that the pro-life side once again has the same old-same old (ie, nothing).

Pro-life: "Abortion's not natural."
Me: So what?

Pro-life: "Women have no right to privacy."
Me: Bullsh!t.

Pro-life: "Abortion should not be used as birth control/for convenience."
Me: It's none of your business what it's "used" as. Women have the right not to give birth if they don't want to.

Pro-life: "Abortion's icky."
Me: Don't have one, then.

Pro-life: "Abortion's dangerous."
Me: Statistically, it's eight times safer than a normal, uncomplicated pregnancy and delivery; twelve times safer than having a c-section.

Pro-life: "Abortion teaches women that there are no consequences to having sex."
Me: The procedure itself is a "consequence". It costs money, and it's not physically comfortable. That should come as good news to those who believe women who have sex need to be made to suffer for it or else they are not learning their lesson, whatever the fvck that's supposed to be.

Pro-life: "Abortion is selfish."
Me: And...? So is refusing to have sex with the smelly old man at work who is constantly propositioning you. Everyone has the right- and maybe even the responsibility- to be "selfish" when it comes to their own bodies. If you are a parent, it is especially crucial that you not do anything that will compromise your ability to care for your extant children. Your responsibility is to them, not to a child who does not yet exist.

Pro-life: "Women need to be inconvenienced. It builds character."
Me: If and when I feel myself lacking in character and in need of inconvenience, I'll deliberately misplace my car keys or stub my toe on the doorframe, then.
Unlike bringing unwanted children into the world against my will, these things will "inconvenience" nobody but me.

saltwn · #90 (**permalink**) 12-07-2011, 12:29 PM

1069, I am no more pro life than pro choice. I am pro health.
I brought the Karma thing into it because yes it does affect other than the persons participating.
Look it's already become something of an accepted fad. I'm sure I can't stop it. But I feel I should say what I think about it.
I think having a baby on a week day so the doc can play golf is a silly disruption of normal life but younger women seem to go for it so what do I know?

I further think anyone who put a cardboard tube (or worse germ ridden finger

) up their snatch for their monthly, is begging for all sorts of trouble.
Did I prevent my girls from choosing their own methods for this? I did not. O simply gave them my views as a nurse and as a woman and as a mother.
I can understand illness or not wanting a deformed child. I cannot understand abortion as birth control. And I cannot understand those who want to bring back partial birth abortion.
So read your views and rr's and I learn a little more about your generations. I don't have to like or remain quite about it.

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