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Science, Technology & Health Discuss Single-payer health insurance petition at the General Discussion; Well as an American I think we can do better. We are a progressive society not a regressive society. I ...

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Old 06-20-2009, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: Single-payer health insurance petition

Well as an American I think we can do better. We are a progressive society not a regressive society. I think you would be in the minority when it comes to thinking healthcare is important.
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Yes I do. Look at the UK or Canada. Massive entitlement = rationed health care.

Nope, we can't. It's a free market and you choose to pay it.Just because modern medicine can cure things doesn't mean it's not very, very expensive to do so.
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Old 06-20-2009, 03:53 PM
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We are a progressive society not a regressive society. I think you would be in the minority when it comes to thinking healthcare is important.
Huh? I think healthcare is incredibly important but I don't think that everyone has a right to the best care that money can buy.

Brain surgery or a heart transplant is something that is more expensive of a procedure than most Americans could ever possibly afford out of their own pocket. Because some choose to purchase health insurance they still have the opportunity to have those procedures should they need them. I suppose in those socialist countries they simply ration expensive procedures, so unless you're connected you just have to die.

That's what single-payer gets you. Watered down health care.
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Old 06-20-2009, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Single-payer health insurance petition

Signed. It's about time. And yes we have worse health than those countries who have this and we pay more.
Duh.
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: Single-payer health insurance petition

I didn't say it was a right. I said as a country we can do better.
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Huh? I think healthcare is incredibly important but I don't think that everyone has a right to the best care that money can buy.

Brain surgery or a heart transplant is something that is more expensive of a procedure than most Americans could ever possibly afford out of their own pocket. Because some choose to purchase health insurance they still have the opportunity to have those procedures should they need them. I suppose in those socialist countries they simply ration expensive procedures, so unless you're connected you just have to die.

That's what single-payer gets you. Watered down health care.
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Old 06-20-2009, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: Single-payer health insurance petition

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We are a progressive society...
Depends upon your definition of that word.

If you mean that Americans are generally in favor of progress (a definition that seems almost tautological), and are opposed to the Luddite mindset, I would certainly agree.

But if, by "progressive," you mean left-of-center, I would strongly disagree. Despite the election of then-Sen. Obama to the presidency last November, and the Democrats' big wins in the 2006 and 2008 congressional elections, I would argue that this remains a center-right country; and that these election results reflect a severe disdain with the GOP's leadership in recent years--not a permanent (or even long-term) turn to the political left.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: Single-payer health insurance petition

Let me help you out with some clarification. You seem overwhelmed with the definition.

Progressive

1 a: of, relating to, or characterized by progress b: making use of or interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunities c: of, relating to, or constituting an educational theory marked by emphasis on the individual child, informality of classroom procedure, and encouragement of self-expression
2: of, relating to, or characterized by progression
3: moving forward or onward : advancing

I am saying that intelligent people can advance society by finding solutions to situations that limit progress. That would be progressive. The burdon of healthcare costs are overwhelming our financial system. Not to mention the costs that we all pay for those who are uninsured. So moving forward or onward or advancing
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Depends upon your definition of that word.

I
If you mean that Americans are generally in favor of progress (a definition that seems almost tautological), and are opposed to the Luddite mindset, I would certainly agree.

But if, by "progressive," you mean left-of-center, I would strongly disagree. Despite the election of then-Sen. Obama to the presidency last November, and the Democrats' big wins in the 2006 and 2008 congressional elections, I would argue that this remains a center-right country; and that these election results reflect a severe disdain with the GOP's leadership in recent years--not a permanent (or even long-term) turn to the political left.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Single-payer health insurance petition

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Let me help you out with some clarification. You seem overwhelmed with the definition.

Progressive

1 a: of, relating to, or characterized by progress b: making use of or interested in new ideas, findings, or opportunities c: of, relating to, or constituting an educational theory marked by emphasis on the individual child, informality of classroom procedure, and encouragement of self-expression
2: of, relating to, or characterized by progression
3: moving forward or onward : advancing
Your observation, which serves as an introduction to what succeeds it, seems a bit patronizing.

I am not at all "overwhelmed." But some people nowadays use the term progressive as a synonym for the older term liberal. And that is probably a good thing. For one thing, liberal can be a bit ambiguous, as the older sense of the term comes fairly close to what would nowadays be called conservative. Moreover, the word liberal is often uttered with a bit of a sneer; and I feel no need to demean those to the left of center in order to demonstrate the utter vacuousness of their philosophy.

In fact, Henry Wallace, who had been Vice-President under FDR, ran in 1948 for the presidency, as the standard bearer for the Progressive Party--a socialist organization.

So I will reiterate my point: If you believe that most Americans wish to see technological progress, I would agree; but if you believe that most Americans automatically equate progress with change--in other words, with left-of-center thinking--I would strongly disagree.
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Single-payer health insurance petition

Maybe this petition isn't necessary -- it turns out Michael Steele has already solved the health care crisis:
"So if it’s a cost problem, it’s easy: Get the people in a room who have the most and the most direct impact on cost, and do the deal. Do the deal. It’s not that complicated.

If it’s an access question, people don’t have access to health care, then figure out who they are, and give them access! Hello?! Am I missing something here? If my friend Trevor has access to health care, and I don’t, why do I need to overhaul the entire system so I can get access he already has? why don’t you just focus on me and get me access?"
Who knew it would be this simple?
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Single-payer health insurance petition

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Signed. It's about time. And yes we have worse health than those countries who have this and we pay more.
Duh.
Really? Would you like to cite life expentancy statistics to confirm that?

In the US, we have the best care available, and continuously deveop new procedures for care, that every other ****ing country envies.

That's why so many interns in US Medical schools are foreign ... or haven't you ever noticed that??? If you haven't, then you haven't been watching even pop culture televison.

We pay for insurance that covers our potential expenses. Since we DEMAND comprehensive coverage, whereas in the UK you have to go blind in one eye to start to get macular degeneration treatment, we get BETTER coverage now than we will under Obama's plan.
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Old 06-21-2009, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: Single-payer health insurance petition

You can't be paying for your healthcare.
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Originally Posted by Michael1 View Post
Really? Would you like to cite life expentancy statistics to confirm that?

In the US, we have the best care available, and continuously deveop new procedures for care, that every other ****ing country envies.

That's why so many interns in US Medical schools are foreign ... or haven't you ever noticed that??? If you haven't, then you haven't been watching even pop culture televison.

We pay for insurance that covers our potential expenses. Since we DEMAND comprehensive coverage, whereas in the UK you have to go blind in one eye to start to get macular degeneration treatment, we get BETTER coverage now than we will under Obama's plan.
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