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Old 03-05-2018, 01:56 PM
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Default Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

This is the second try at post this.

It would seem we have a new
Quote:
“Quantum theory introduces a new idea, that of imaginary time.
So now this has marit.. to me...


Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

By Jamie Seidel | news.com.au

It's the biggest question in the universe. What happened before the Big Bang? Now world-famous physicist Steven Hawking says he has an answer.

“The boundary condition of the universe ... is that it has no boundary,” Hawking tells the National Geographic’s Star Talk show this weekend.

In other words, there is no time before time began as time was always there.

It was just different.

He tells physicist Neil deGrasse Tyson that amid the almost infinitely small quantum foam of the singularity before the Big Bang, time existed in a ‘bent’” state.

It was distorted along another dimension — always getting fractionally closer to, but never becoming, nothing.

So there never was a Big Bang that created something from nothing.

......................................... Continued At

Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time | Fox News
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Old 03-05-2018, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
This is the second try at post this.

It would seem we have a new So now this has marit.. to me...


Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

By Jamie Seidel | news.com.au

It's the biggest question in the universe. What happened before the Big Bang? Now world-famous physicist Steven Hawking says he has an answer.

“The boundary condition of the universe ... is that it has no boundary,” Hawking tells the National Geographic’s Star Talk show this weekend.

In other words, there is no time before time began as time was always there.

It was just different.

He tells physicist Neil deGrasse Tyson that amid the almost infinitely small quantum foam of the singularity before the Big Bang, time existed in a ‘bent’” state.

It was distorted along another dimension — always getting fractionally closer to, but never becoming, nothing.

So there never was a Big Bang that created something from nothing.

......................................... Continued At

Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time | Fox News
To be clear,,,;Hawking's Proposition is that ...;"It was distorted along another dimension — always getting fractionally closer to, but never becoming, nothing."

Actually this is a clarification due to recent discoveries about the unexplainable "Dark Matter." That there was "nothing" and then "something" never made logical science. I understood that most theories of the BIG BANG suggested a singularity formed from a previous "something" that was not our universe. Nothing in the known science says it had to be a bang. It could just as easily been a whimper.
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Old 03-06-2018, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
To be clear,,,;Hawking's Proposition is that ...;"It was distorted along another dimension — always getting fractionally closer to, but never becoming, nothing."

Actually this is a clarification due to recent discoveries about the unexplainable "Dark Matter." That there was "nothing" and then "something" never made logical science. I understood that most theories of the BIG BANG suggested a singularity formed from a previous "something" that was not our universe. Nothing in the known science says it had to be a bang. It could just as easily been a whimper.
If they're making it up it could just as easily have been a ham sandwich.

the bottom line is, if they are being completely honest, they have NO CLUE scientifically speaking.
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Old 03-06-2018, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
If they're making it up it could just as easily have been a ham sandwich.

the bottom line is, if they are being completely honest, they have NO CLUE scientifically speaking.
I have to disagree. Clues,,,, we have many. It's the conclusions to which I am skeptical.

Ham sandwich?, No. But, with the right bias, the argument could be proposed that Dark matter could well be God himself. After all, it is everywhere, omnipresent and unseen until he spoke the words,,,"let there be Light"
BANG! ....and there was.

Clues lead us to the truth. But, unfortunately, we must first stumble over ourselves to get there.
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
I have to disagree. Clues,,,, we have many. It's the conclusions to which I am skeptical.

Ham sandwich?, No. But, with the right bias, the argument could be proposed that Dark matter could well be God himself. After all, it is everywhere, omnipresent and unseen until he spoke the words,,,"let there be Light"
BANG! ....and there was.

Clues lead us to the truth. But, unfortunately, we must first stumble over ourselves to get there.
Dark matter hasn't been detected, it's still a speculation based on other parts of theories not accounting for movements of seen energy and objects in space. there are other speculations, one that electromagnetism is an unaccounted factor.

and I don't think God has revealed anywhere that he's a "substance" that can be detected. he says that by "His POWER" and "His Words" He created and sustains the universe. and he KNOWs what going on at all times everywhere. and is there in that sense. but as far a "physical" manifestation of his presence being the dark energy, or dark matter. I mean if we're going to think like that why not just say he's made of gravity or radiation or matter itself? it's all around as well. why can't gravity SPEAK? if we're going to give inanimate forces intellect, will and personally?

the Hindu's and some other eastern religions promote that type of idea. But the prophets apostles and Jesus never went there. God was Before all things (mater and energy) and created all things, and is in a real sense OUTSIDE of all things is the picture we get.

Scientifically and logically speaking the clues to origins point to a beginning and a designer. which aligns with what the Bible teaches.

as you mentioned, There are no clues that give any good indication of a "spontaneous generation" of matter and energy and order.
And I implied there are no clues that give Hawking any real backup to any point beyond and origin since the known science does not really conclusively work to even get us back to a "bang" or a "whimper".

they don't even know for sure how stars form. Much less how the universe cam into being.
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Dark matter hasn't been detected, it's still a speculation based on other parts of theories not accounting for movements of seen energy and objects in space. there are other speculations, one that electromagnetism is an unaccounted factor.

and I don't think God has revealed anywhere that he's a "substance" that can be detected. he says that by "His POWER" and "His Words" He created and sustains the universe. and he KNOWs what going on at all times everywhere. and is there in that sense. but as far a "physical" manifestation of his presence being the dark energy, or dark matter. I mean if we're going to think like that why not just say he's made of gravity or radiation or matter itself? it's all around as well. why can't gravity SPEAK? if we're going to give inanimate forces intellect, will and personally?

the Hindu's and some other eastern religions promote that type of idea. But the prophets apostles and Jesus never went there. God was Before all things (mater and energy) and created all things, and is in a real sense OUTSIDE of all things is the picture we get.

Scientifically and logically speaking the clues to origins point to a beginning and a designer. which aligns with what the Bible teaches.

as you mentioned, There are no clues that give any good indication of a "spontaneous generation" of matter and energy and order.
And I implied there are no clues that give Hawking any real backup to any point beyond and origin since the known science does not really conclusively work to even get us back to a "bang" or a "whimper".

they don't even know for sure how stars form. Much less how the universe cam into being.
My points were not Theories but farcical concepts mystically based on a couple of knowns. You are welcome to take them apart, if you must, but please take them with the humor intended.

BTW Dark matter exists. Like gravity,,, it is Proven. we just don't know yet what it really is.

Hawking likely knows more about the universe than you and I combined. But then so did Newton and he was wrong. The same could be said of Einstein.

Yes the clues do tend to point to intelligent design. Ad the Bible confirms that. But much of the Biblical history is unproven so that justification of what is essentially a Mythology ( to be blunt) is hardly conclusive evidence. And such thinking IS the example of stumbling over ourselves to which I pointedly referred.


Best we be careful there.

Early astronomers, the Greeks and the Egyptians, tried to take their celestial observations and fit them to their theologies. Same scientific methods were used in the Middle Ages.

We cannot chose where we are going in science and then invent the facts which get us there. No, better we stub our toes as we crab through the ages in the dark, guessing our way with hesitant unbiased speculation until the path is proven true.
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Old 03-06-2018, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
My points were not Theories but farcical concepts mystically based on a couple of knowns. You are welcome to take them apart, if you must, but please take them with the humor intended.
Ok but give m a clue as to which parts you think are mystical and farcical and humor. None of the concepts you mentioned don't have people that promote them seriously.
So i addressed them seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
BTW Dark matter exists. Like gravity,,, it is Proven. we just don't know yet what it really is.
as i mentioned some scientist say they think that dark matter can be accounted for by other known forces. and if you remove certain big bang assumptions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Hawking likely knows more about the universe than you and I combined. But then so did Newton and he was wrong. The same could be said of Einstein.
I'm sure they all do/did. doesn't mean they've made a convincing cases for everything they promote or promoted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Yes the clues do tend to point to intelligent design. And the Bible confirms that. But much of the Biblical history is unproven so that justification of what is essentially a Mythology ( to be blunt) is hardly conclusive evidence. And such thinking IS the example of stumbling over ourselves to which I pointedly referred.
Do a bit more study franc. most of the Bible is proven... or better word.. supported historically.
and assuming that portions are essentially Mythology is just that, an unsupported assumption.
As you say, "Best we be careful there".


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Early astronomers, the Greeks and the Egyptians, tried to take their celestial observations and fit them to their theologies.
Some tried some didn't. When they did they failed. the Bible does not fail.
As scholars of mythology like C.S. Lewis noted there's a different approach in scripture to the narratives. they aren't "once upon a time" stories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Same scientific methods were used in the Middle Ages.
some methods in the middles ages were scientific some not some were based on older Greek, Arab and Babylonian culture's science.
all of the ancient cultures practiced "science" made a lot of discoveries , many of sciences were attached to the religion. which made it better and worse in various ways.
most (if not all) of the early "modern" western scientist were christian and many said out right that they felt they could pursue the truth of nature without fear becasue they understood that it was created logical and orderly and NOT random. many realize that there would be no modern science if the monks and others in the middle ages hadn't laid the ground work for a basic understanding of the natural world found in the idea that GOD made it all and it's opened to be explored and you will find order and causality in the natural world.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
We cannot chose where we are going in science and then invent the facts which get us there. No, better we stub our toes as we crab through the ages in the dark, guessing our way with hesitant unbiased speculation until the path is proven true.
science often starts with guesses, at questions. And the guesses are often assumed (promoted as) "true" if they seem to make sense (or they like them better than other ideas) and sometimes the bad guesses are pursued observationally until finally after holding on to them for far to long they simply cannot be held as true anymore becasue of facts that disprove them.

the idea of the earth as center of the solar system , promoted by Ptolemy the Greco-Roman scientist, was adhered to for centuries. To the point where some scientist (followed by the religious majority) would not even LOOK at Galileo's notes or look though his telescopes to disabuse themselves of the "COMMONLY HELD scientific view of the day. "Spontaneous Generation" was another scientific view that held sway until finally the scientific political consensuses allowed the idea to die. the same with the Germ theory as apposed to miasma and bad humors all major "scientific" theories. Some doctors REFUSED to wash their hands even when facts were presented that PROVED that it helped reduce illnesses and death.

Bottom line the quest for truth scientific and otherwise is not so pure or whimsical.
People often tend to go with the crowd and/or their desires as long as they can. Collections of facts do eventually move some folks but it's by no means as sure thing. But I do believe the truth will finally always win, it can be ignored but it won't go away.
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

mr. wonder, I would slightly disagree with in that {I am a believer} some of the old testament stories are based upon older theories related to God and His creation from older cultures/societies.. I like many preachers, nuns etc., do think man added to the Bible with some of the prevalent stories in the early stages of the writing of the Bible.

Originally Posted by FrancSevin
Quote:
Early astronomers, the Greeks and the Egyptians, tried to take their celestial observations and fit them to their theologies.


Some tried some didn't. When they did they failed. the Bible does not fail.
As scholars of mythology like C.S. Lewis noted there's a different approach in scripture to the narratives. they aren't "once upon a time" stories.



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Old 03-06-2018, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

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Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
mr. wonder, I would slightly disagree with in that {I am a believer} some of the old testament stories are based upon older theories related to God and His creation from older cultures/societies.. I like many preachers, nuns etc., do think man added to the Bible with some of the prevalent stories in the early stages of the writing of the Bible.

Originally Posted by FrancSevin




Some tried some didn't. When they did they failed. the Bible does not fail.
As scholars of mythology like C.S. Lewis noted there's a different approach in scripture to the narratives. they aren't "once upon a time" stories.



Bingo.


The Bible is a narrative designed to glorify HIM and relate HIS word. Much of it is a story about History, some of it proven Sorta But there is no record yet found, none, of Moses in Egypt. As for science, I believe it will eventually join with faith both by honest compromise. But not if they insist onbeing adversaries.


jus' My take.
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Old 03-06-2018, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

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Ok but give m a clue as to which parts you think are mystical and farcical and humor. None of the concepts you mentioned don't have people that promote them seriously.
So i addressed them seriously.


as i mentioned some scientist say they think that dark matter can be accounted for by other known forces. and if you remove certain big bang assumptions.

I'm sure they all do/did. doesn't mean they've made a convincing cases for everything they promote or promoted.



Do a bit more study franc. most of the Bible is proven... or better word.. supported historically.
and assuming that portions are essentially Mythology is just that, an unsupported assumption.
As you say, "Best we be careful there".



Some tried some didn't. When they did they failed. the Bible does not fail.
As scholars of mythology like C.S. Lewis noted there's a different approach in scripture to the narratives. they aren't "once upon a time" stories.

some methods in the middles ages were scientific some not some were based on older Greek, Arab and Babylonian culture's science.
all of the ancient cultures practiced "science" made a lot of discoveries , many of sciences were attached to the religion. which made it better and worse in various ways.
most (if not all) of the early "modern" western scientist were christian and many said out right that they felt they could pursue the truth of nature without fear becasue they understood that it was created logical and orderly and NOT random. many realize that there would be no modern science if the monks and others in the middle ages hadn't laid the ground work for a basic understanding of the natural world found in the idea that GOD made it all and it's opened to be explored and you will find order and causality in the natural world.





science often starts with guesses, at questions. And the guesses are often assumed (promoted as) "true" if they seem to make sense (or they like them better than other ideas) and sometimes the bad guesses are pursued observationally until finally after holding on to them for far to long they simply cannot be held as true anymore becasue of facts that disprove them.

the idea of the earth as center of the solar system , promoted by Ptolemy the Greco-Roman scientist, was adhered to for centuries. To the point where some scientist (followed by the religious majority) would not even LOOK at Galileo's notes or look though his telescopes to disabuse themselves of the "COMMONLY HELD scientific view of the day. "Spontaneous Generation" was another scientific view that held sway until finally the scientific political consensuses allowed the idea to die. the same with the Germ theory as apposed to miasma and bad humors all major "scientific" theories. Some doctors REFUSED to wash their hands even when facts were presented that PROVED that it helped reduce illnesses and death.

Bottom line the quest for truth scientific and otherwise is not so pure or whimsical.
People often tend to go with the crowd and/or their desires as long as they can. Collections of facts do eventually move some folks but it's by no means as sure thing. But I do believe the truth will finally always win, it can be ignored but it won't go away.
Nothing in science creates a doubt about my faith. Most all of our scientific discoveries can be somehow related to stories in THE BOOK. That said I don't think even great minds, like Stephen Hawking, can just arrogantly tell us where the science will go, as each new discovery adds more questions than answers.

Hell, Like Sheldon Cooper (BIG BANG THEORY) once expressed, at the center of a black hole we might just find a little man with a flashlight desperately looking for a circuit breaker.
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