2 Billion Years Unchanged, Bacteria Pose an Evolutionary Puzzle

mr wonder · #1 (**permalink**) 02-14-2015, 07:53 AM

2 Billion Years Unchanged, Bacteria Pose an Evolutionary Puzzle

Quote:

Wedged inside rocks in the deep sea off the coast of Western Australia lurks an organism that hasn't evolved in more than 2 billion years, scientists say.

From this deep-sea location, a team of researchers collected fossilized sulfur bacteria that was 1.8 billion years old and compared it to bacteria that lived in the same region 2.3 billion years ago. Both sets of microbes were indistinguishable from modern sulfur bacteria found off the coast of Chile.

But do the findings contradict Darwin's theory of evolution?

"It seems astounding that [this] life has not evolved for more than 2 billion years — nearly half the history of the Earth," the study's leader, J. William Schopf, a paleobiologist at UCLA, said in a statement. "Given that evolution is a fact, this lack of evolution needs to be explained."

Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection states that all species develop from heritable genetic changes that make an individual better able to survive in its environment and reproduce.

So how can Darwin's theory account for these apparently nonchanging bacteria? The answer comes in looking at the bacteria's similarly stable surroundings. True, the deep-sea bacteria in this study haven't changed for eons, but neither has their environment, Schopf said. Darwin's theory doesn't call for organisms to evolve unless their environment changes, so the microbes' lack of evolution is consistent with the theory, Schopf added.

To compare the fossils, Schopf and his colleagues used a method known as Raman spectroscopy to measure the composition and chemistry of the rocks. Then, using confocal laser scanning microscopy, they produced 3D images of the fossils and compared these visualizations with the modern bacteria. The ancient microbes looked identical to the present-day ones, the team found....

2 Billion Years Unchanged, Bacteria Pose an Evolutionary Puzzle

one article on the discover says
"2-billion-year-old bacteria that hasn’t evolved is more evidence for evolution: scientists"

soooo NO Evolution is evidence FOR evolution? really? that's a double think item there.
But it wouldn't be so bad if they would just be consistent.
If they had found a mutated bacteria (bacteria changed into... well even just a slightly different bacteria) it would have been hailed as CONCRETE evidence FOR evolution as well.
Seems you have it both ways in evolutionary "science".

years ago Scientist in Antarctica discovered Lake Vostok. A lake as large as one of the great lakes. They believe it's been covered in ice 2+ miles thick for 15 MILLION years. completely cut off from surface contamination and earths atmosphere for . temps at the surface above the lake have been recorded at -89 degrees Celsius. the water has also been under under high pressures, the temps more like the moons of Jupiter.... and no sun light.... for 15 million years

around 2012 they drilled through very carefully to get samples from the lake.

Many Scientist EXPECTED... PREDICTED... that either there would nothing alive at all because of the harsh conditions. OR that because of the Isolation and the harsh conditions microbes would have evolved to adapted to the alien like environment.

What'd they find?
well bits of genes, microbes, bacteria some multicelled organisms.

Some scientist scoffed saying Impossible they must be from contamination from the drilling. But they was finally ruled out.
then they said well the said well those are fossils and fragments of DNA and RNA. but others quickly pointed out that Nooo, DNA and RNA CANNOT survive 15 million years. it's to fragile. (also applies to the Dino DNA found in the past few years, proves dinosaurs where living 30,000 or less years ago)

So they have fresh samples of these creatures, so what are they. well the categorized about 3500 different kinds and most are the same kinds we know of, unchanged even though living in an isolated environment for "15 million" years. How many Hundreds of millions of generations of bacteria to you think have been born and died in that lake? MORE than enough to evolve something if it were going to happen. Humans from apelings we're told evolved in less than 5 million years, microbes supposedly need far less time.

So the predictions of evolution were wrong. there.
but the new story at top tells us that NO evolution for billions of years is now evidence FOR evolution. "war is peace, freedom is slavery"

can't have it both ways can you?

Quote:

...They don't expect water samples from Lake Vostok will hold alien life, though any life it contains may have taken a slightly different evolutionary path than what appears on the planet today. That's because Lake Vostok, the deepest and most isolated of Antarctica's subglacial lakes, has been cut off from the atmosphere for at least 14 million years.

The lakes, which were discovered via satellite imagery in the late 1990s, owe their existence to the thick Antarctic ice, which acts like a blanket to trap heat coming from inside Earth, keeping water liquid.

"If they find evidence of life there — and I do think Lake Vostok has life in it — it's going to be Earth-like," astrobiologist Dale Andersen, with the SETI Institute's Carl Sagan Center for the Study of Life in the Universe, told Discovery News.

"It's going to be the same kind of life you find everywhere else. It may be that life has evolved differently, but it's still Earth-like, still based on the same DNA structure," Andersen said.....

Alien Life Clues in Antarctic Ice? : Discovery News

Quote:

After comparing the genetic material they found in Lake Vostok to a database of the known microbes on Earth, the biologists found a remarkable variety of critters. There were organisms known for living in salt water, fresh water, super-hot water and even in the guts and other body parts of tube worms, fish and other animals. There were low amounts of genetic material that appeared to come from animals such as a microscopic crustacean, a marine bivalve and a small sea anemone.

Thousands Of Species Found In Lake Vostok Ice | Popular Science

Quote:

Over 3500 different species have been identified by a form of statistical analysis known as metagenomics. Basically, they sequenced all the genetic material in their samples at once, and used sophisticated analytical techniques to make sense of the resulting jumble of information. This technique has proven extremely useful in identifying species in an agricultural soil sample, for instance, but this is the first time its use has revealed a whole group of totally novel organisms.

In heading off criticisms, the team addresses the idea that much of this material might be contamination or ancient life lying dead but preserved since the ice was laid down. It’s impossible that the DNA could have persisted this long as a fossil, they say, but it’s even more impossible that the RNA could have; DNA’s older, more fragile sibling constitutes the best of their evidence in favor of living communities in Lake Vostok, as its half-life is far too small to be some molecular window into the past.

Most interesting is that the life they found is not entirely bacterial. Several hundred species of eukaryotic organisms also live in the water, including over 100 multicellular species.

3,500+ species discovered in Lake Vostok, underneath miles of ice, in conditions similar to Jupiter’s Europa | ExtremeTech

mr wonder · #2 (**permalink**) 04-25-2015, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr. wonder

2 Billion Years Unchanged, Bacteria Pose an Evolutionary Puzzle

one article on the discover says
"2-billion-year-old bacteria that hasn’t evolved is more evidence for evolution: scientists"

soooo NO Evolution is evidence FOR evolution? really? that's a double think item there.
But it wouldn't be so bad if they would just be consistent.
If they had found a mutated bacteria (bacteria changed into... well even just a slightly different bacteria) it would have been hailed as CONCRETE evidence FOR evolution as well.
Seems you have it both ways in evolutionary "science".

years ago Scientist in Antarctica discovered Lake Vostok. A lake as large as one of the great lakes. They believe it's been covered in ice 2+ miles thick for 15 MILLION years. completely cut off from surface contamination and earths atmosphere for . temps at the surface above the lake have been recorded at -89 degrees Celsius. the water has also been under under high pressures, the temps more like the moons of Jupiter.... and no sun light.... for 15 million years

around 2012 they drilled through very carefully to get samples from the lake.

Many Scientist EXPECTED... PREDICTED... that either there would nothing alive at all because of the harsh conditions. OR that because of the Isolation and the harsh conditions microbes would have evolved to adapted to the alien like environment.

What'd they find?
well bits of genes, microbes, bacteria some multicelled organisms.

Some scientist scoffed saying Impossible they must be from contamination from the drilling. But they was finally ruled out.
then they said well the said well those are fossils and fragments of DNA and RNA. but others quickly pointed out that Nooo, DNA and RNA CANNOT survive 15 million years. it's to fragile. (also applies to the Dino DNA found in the past few years, proves dinosaurs where living 30,000 or less years ago)

So they have fresh samples of these creatures, so what are they. well the categorized about 3500 different kinds and most are the same kinds we know of, unchanged even though living in an isolated environment for "15 million" years. How many Hundreds of millions of generations of bacteria to you think have been born and died in that lake? MORE than enough to evolve something if it were going to happen. Humans from apelings we're told evolved in less than 5 million years, microbes supposedly need far less time.

So the predictions of evolution were wrong. there.
but the new story at top tells us that NO evolution for billions of years is now evidence FOR evolution. "war is peace, freedom is slavery"

can't have it both ways can you?

Thousands Of Species Found In Lake Vostok Ice | Popular Science

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