Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Discussion > Science, Inventions & Space
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Science, Inventions & Space Discuss Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy at the General Discussion; I just love Space news yet I want no part of going into space. If asked many years ago then ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2014, 02:06 PM
mlurp's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flatlands
Gender: Male
Posts: 37,235
Thanks: 18,842
Thanked 10,815 Times in 8,432 Posts
Default Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

I just love Space news yet I want no part of going into space. If asked many years ago then YES I would have wanted to go. But now say hit the rocker not the rocket...

One has to search for sites that don't copy right this news... People in the business of this important field don't care for the average person to lean a thing about their work. They just care about the many others learning they were the first to find it... So the copy rights.

Quote:
Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

By Matthew R. Francis April 27, 2014 6:45 AM The Daily Beast

In the deep forest of stars that lies at the center of galaxies, a voracious monster lives: a black hole millions or billions of times more massive than the Sun. These cosmic beasts are more ambush predators than hunters, though: they only feed on hapless stars and other objects that get too close. Otherwise, they are content to sit quietly if they can’t get any prey for long times.

Sometimes a quiet black hole will wake up in a dramatic way, when a star, gas cloud, or even a rogue planet comes within gravitational reach. When that happens, forces similar to those that raise tides on Earth shred the unlucky object, eating some of its mass, and spewing the rest back into space. The stuff that doesn’t fall in can emit a lot of light, turning the black hole—perhaps briefly—into a tiger burning bright in the forest of the night.

READ MORE Google’s Kinda Evil After All

Now, astronomers F. K. Liu, Shuo Li, and S. Komossa identified a pair of black holes in the act of cooperatively dismantling a defenseless star. Such pairs of black holes are rare, and a star drifting close enough to get shredded is rarer. Not least, this feeding frenzy could provide insight into the way the biggest black holes in the Universe form.

The size of the central black hole is correlated to the size of its galaxy. (More properly, it’s related to the mass of the central region of the galaxy, but that’s a detail.) Big galaxies tend to have huge black holes, just as a larger forest can support larger predators. One extremely massive black hole we know is nearly 7 billion times the mass of the Sun, and the galaxy hosting it—a huge blob of stars known as M87—is one of the biggest we’ve observed. (For comparison, the Milky Way’s black hole is about 4 million times the Sun’s mass.)

READ MORE We’re All Stalkers Now

Did supermassive black holes like the one in M87 get that way by eating stars? (Lower-mass black holes, such as Cygnus X-1, are the remnants of very massive stars; those are a story for another day.) The answer is no: despite the stereotype, black holes don’t suck everything in around them. Just like anything else, their gravity is strongest close by, and diminishes approximately with the square of the distance. That means twice as far from the black hole, the gravitational force is roughly four times as weak. The Sun doesn’t feel a significant gravitational pull from the Milky Way’s black hole, which is more than 25,000 light-years away. Most any galaxy’s stars are far out of reach.

........................................... CONTINUED AT: ...........................................
Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

Sure now we get a Science TV Channel and a new take on Cosmo's which stars Neil degrass Tyson and is so much better and newer.

Plus they high light the people behind the first works leading to either the newest Science Fields, Discovery's etc.
Which I enjoy........... So I say let these copy rights go out of use. One can only hope.
__________________


Improvise - Adapt - Over Come...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mlurp For This Useful Post:
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2014, 04:50 PM
mr wonder's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,469
Thanks: 9,447
Thanked 5,725 Times in 3,856 Posts
Default Re: Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

No Black Holes Exist, Says Stephen Hawking—At Least Not Like We Think
Quote:
Black holes do not have "event horizons" beyond which there is no return, according to renowned physicist.

By
Charles Q. Choi
for National Geographic
Published January 27, 2014

Black holes do not exist—at least, not as we know them, says renowned physicist Stephen Hawking, potentially provoking a rethink of one of space's most mysterious objects.

A new study from Hawking also says that black holes may not possess "firewalls," destructive belts of radiation that some researchers have proposed would incinerate anything that passes through them but others scientists deem an impossibility.

The conventional view of black holes posits that their gravitational pull is so powerful that nothing can escape from them—not even light, which is why they're called black holes. The boundary past which there is supposedly no return is known as the event horizon.

In this conception, all information about anything that ventures past a black hole's event horizon is destroyed. On the other hand, quantum physics, the best description so far of how the universe behaves on a subatomic level, suggests that information cannot ever be destroyed, leading to a fundamental conflict in theory.

No Event Horizons
Now Hawking is suggesting a resolution to the paradox: Black holes do not possess event horizons after all, so they do not destroy information.

"The absence of event horizons means that there are no black holes, in the sense of regimes from which light can't escape," Hawking wrote in a paper he posted online on January 22. The paper was based on a talk he gave last August at a workshop at the Kavli Institute for Theoretical Physics in Santa Barbara, California.

Instead, Hawking proposes that black holes possess "apparent horizons" that only temporarily entrap matter and energy that can eventually reemerge as radiation. This outgoing radiation possesses all the original information about what fell into the black hole, although in radically different form. Since the outgoing information is scrambled, Hawking writes, there's no practical way to reconstruct anything that fell in based on what comes out. The scrambling occurs because the apparent horizon is chaotic in nature, kind of like weather on Earth.

We can't reconstruct what an object that fell into a black hole was like based on information leaking from it, Hawking writes, just as "one can't predict the weather more than a few days in advance."

Firewalls Removed

Hawking's reasoning against event horizons also seems to eliminate so-called firewalls, which are searing zones of intense radiation that some scientists recently (and controversially) suggested may exist at or near event horizons.
Scince is Fun.
But please notice that the above is without observation.

u know Mlurp, I SUGGEST that what people think they see in your article may have a different explanation. since "black holes" are still in flux theoretically. maybe...sorta... kinda

You might be interested in the Plasma Universe Idea that there ARE NO black holes at all.

It's very interesting, i can't say I know if they are right either. It seems they've got some plot holes in their theory as well. but they do seem to be able to model a lot of what seems to be happening in astronomy in a generic sense . and without invoking invisible, undetectable, unobservable dark matter and energy to fill 99 percent of the "known" universe.
Maybe the emperor has no clothes on here?

I think scientist don't really know how it works exactly, but it sure is fun looking

__________________
Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2014, 05:10 PM
mr wonder's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,469
Thanks: 9,447
Thanked 5,725 Times in 3,856 Posts
Default Re: Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

Tesla didn't buy Einstein's theory of gravity. And Einstein questioned the math heavy astrophysics, and his own theories.
Tesla believed in "the ether" . are scientist now reinvocing a new version of the ether.
A force that the universe swims in but we are basically unaware of?


idunno

still many unanswered questions
__________________
Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2014, 05:18 PM
mr wonder's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,469
Thanks: 9,447
Thanked 5,725 Times in 3,856 Posts
Default Re: Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

__________________
Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2014, 08:24 PM
mlurp's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flatlands
Gender: Male
Posts: 37,235
Thanks: 18,842
Thanked 10,815 Times in 8,432 Posts
Default Re: Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
No Black Holes Exist, Says Stephen Hawking—At Least Not Like We Think


Scince is Fun.
But please notice that the above is without observation.

u know Mlurp, I SUGGEST that what people think they see in your article may have a different explanation. since "black holes" are still in flux theoretically. maybe...sorta... kinda

You might be interested in the Plasma Universe Idea that there ARE NO black holes at all.

It's very interesting, i can't say I know if they are right either. It seems they've got some plot holes in their theory as well. but they do seem to be able to model a lot of what seems to be happening in astronomy in a generic sense . and without invoking invisible, undetectable, unobservable dark matter and energy to fill 99 percent of the "known" universe.
Maybe the emperor has no clothes on here?

I think scientist don't really know how it works exactly, but it sure is fun looking

Black Holes Plasma Cosmology Electric Universe Astronomy - YouTube


Yet I am not going to over it. So a simple search will do...

Quote:
Who Discovered black Holes

About 43,200,000 results (0.37 seconds)
Search Results

In 1915, Einstein's theory of general relativity predicted the existence of black holes. In 1967 John Wheeler, an American theoretical physicist, applied the term "black hole" to these collapsed objects.

When were black holes first theorized?
- HubbleSite ...
hubblesite.org/.../answer.php.id=63&cat=exotic

Black Holes - History - Amazing Space

amazing-space.stsci.edu/.../blackholes/...‎
Space Telescope Science Institute
1796, Simon Pierre LaPlace, Predicted the existence of black holes. ". ... 1964, Jocelyn Bell-Burnell, Discovered neutron stars that, at the time, were the densest ...

Black hole - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole‎
Wikipedia
The discovery of neutron stars sparked interest in gravitationally collapsed compact objects as a possible astrophysical reality. Black holes of stellar mass are ...
‎Supermassive black hole - ‎Event horizon - ‎Point of no return - ‎White hole
Hubble Space Telescope

And many more on this page...................AT: ...........................................
https://www.google.com/search?q=Who+...a&channel=fflb
__________________


Improvise - Adapt - Over Come...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to mlurp For This Useful Post:
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 10:56 AM
mr wonder's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,469
Thanks: 9,447
Thanked 5,725 Times in 3,856 Posts
Default Re: Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of people that believe in black holes. I'm just pointing that Stephen HAWKINGS (a main proponent of black holes) says there are no black holes ... at least the way they are generally described.
And as for Einstein's predictions .. well according to a reading of his papers it seems he thought that "black holes" were only possible as theoretical mathematically objects. but that in real physics they could not exist because of countervailing forces of mass, density and motion.
see below.


I don't know for sure, but to me it seems the theory rides high in many minds but the evidence FOR them is thin, and if I were to put money on it i'd put it down on the side that says there are no such things.

I like the idea for sci-fi films and the like but I think that's all they may end up being.
__________________
Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 01:56 PM
saltwn's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Esto perpetua
Posts: 76,512
Thanks: 54,075
Thanked 25,707 Times in 18,302 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to saltwn
Default Re: Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

I'm sorry but the title of this makes me think of when Rosanne and Tom Arnold were together
__________________


This whole @benshapiro offering to debate @Ocasio2018 issue is ridiculous and shows the bias of the media in favor of the right-wing. Fine, I offer the same $10,000 to debate @tedcruz. Not joking. Guaranteed it gets no coverage. Why won't the bumbling coward Ted Cruz debate me?!
Cenk Uygur
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2014, 07:40 PM
mlurp's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flatlands
Gender: Male
Posts: 37,235
Thanks: 18,842
Thanked 10,815 Times in 8,432 Posts
Default Re: Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
I'm not saying that there aren't a lot of people that believe in black holes. I'm just pointing that Stephen HAWKINGS (a main proponent of black holes) says there are no black holes ... at least the way they are generally described.
And as for Einstein's predictions .. well according to a reading of his papers it seems he thought that "black holes" were only possible as theoretical mathematically objects. but that in real physics they could not exist because of countervailing forces of mass, density and motion.
see below.

Einstein said There Are No Black Holes - YouTube

I don't know for sure, but to me it seems the theory rides high in many minds but the evidence FOR them is thin, and if I were to put money on it i'd put it down on the side that says there are no such things.

I like the idea for sci-fi films and the like but I think that's all they may end up being.
And I can say Hawkins is losing his mind... What does this prove? Nothing since I provided a lot more than just one mans change of mind. In just a few minutes...

Have you read any of the articles in the search. Some go back over a hundred years. And in the end (today) they were right. Till one man changes his mind.
Well Hawkins might of changed his mind yet Science hasn't. Has it?

We find ourselves on different side of the same coin Plus this is just a side bar to this Topic. Not part of the main topic I posted about... IMHO.
__________________


Improvise - Adapt - Over Come...
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2014, 04:02 PM
mr wonder's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male
Posts: 10,469
Thanks: 9,447
Thanked 5,725 Times in 3,856 Posts
Default Re: Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

it seems a lot of the science of cosmology is theoretical and circumstantial or based only in mathematics rather than observation.

so that 'science' isn't as firm as it's presented. It's more like the consensus view at this time, rather than scientific fact.

And as i pointed out Einstein ... nearly 100 years ago... didn't buy the idea. so it's not just Hawkins changing his mind. ANd Hawkins didn't just wake up and change his mind he reviewed the data and math. Math he did that had furthered the idea of black holes he's reviewed .. and along with observable data and he's found that it's not like he and many others thought it to be.

Science moves forward by self correction right? by observation and including reliable observations into your view. If the observations don't match the theory the theories either got to change or be chucked.

the problem is to often the public is feed the consensus view of a current theory as scientific fact. But it seem to me it's good to remain agnostic scientifically speaking concerning unobserved or unrepeatable scientific theories. and Theories that have weird major dangling facts contrary to what the theories allow for.
__________________
Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2014, 10:08 PM
mlurp's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Flatlands
Gender: Male
Posts: 37,235
Thanks: 18,842
Thanked 10,815 Times in 8,432 Posts
Default Re: Black Hole Pair Caught in Feeding Frenzy

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
it seems a lot of the science of cosmology is theoretical and circumstantial or based only in mathematics rather than observation.

so that 'science' isn't as firm as it's presented. It's more like the consensus view at this time, rather than scientific fact.

And as i pointed out Einstein
... nearly 100 years ago... didn't buy the idea. so it's not just Hawkins changing his mind. ANd Hawkins didn't just wake up and change his mind he reviewed the data and math. Math he did that had furthered the idea of black holes he's reviewed .. and along with observable data and he's found that it's not like he and many others thought it to be.

Funny that one of the first thing in my post above in the search is this:

Quote:
In 1915, Einstein's theory of general relativity predicted the existence of black holes. In 1967 John Wheeler, an American theoretical physicist, applied the term "black hole" to these collapsed objects.
Science moves forward by self correction right? by observation and including reliable observations into your view. If the observations don't match the theory the theories either got to change or be chucked.

the problem is to often the public is feed the consensus view of a current theory as scientific fact. But it seem to me it's good to remain agnostic scientifically speaking concerning unobserved or unrepeatable scientific theories. and Theories that have weird major dangling facts contrary to what the theories allow for.
Yep theories are just made up to cover what they don't know as facts. So their ideas (theory's) are supported by another theory and so on till some one comes up with a newer theory that is accepted.
__________________


Improvise - Adapt - Over Come...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
black, caught, feeding, frenzy, hole, pair

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0