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Science, Inventions & Space Discuss Comet's Astronomy Workshop at the General Discussion; I created this thread in hopes of discussing a new topic once a week, or however long time permits, in ...

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Old 07-06-2012, 09:45 PM
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Default Comet's Astronomy Workshop

I created this thread in hopes of discussing a new topic once a week, or however long time permits, in an easy to understand manner. I will focus on mainly astronomy, but will include other fields as well. Feel free to just read or jump in with any thoughts, opinions or questions.

If you have a specific topic you would like me to discuss or one you always wanted to know more about, please make your request and I will cover it as soon as possible.

For our first topic, I decided to go with a question many ask me.

Is the Moon Moving Away From the Earth?

The short answer is yes, the Moon's orbit is indeed moving it away from Earth in a higher orbit by approximately one and a half inches a year.

But why is this happening?

The most logical cause is tidal bulging and the domino effect it has. First, the side of Earth facing the Moon has it's oceans rise due to the gravitational force from the Moon. This gravitational force is extremely strong. By contrast, the side of Earth opposite of the moon has a relative low gravitational force. This discrepancy causes the Earth to stretch, with the bulges referred to as tidal bulges.

The sheer mass of these tidal bulges possess a gravitational force of their own, which in turn pulls on the Moon, speeding it up since the Earth rotates faster than the Moon, while the pull from the Moon causes Earth to slow down. This constant tug of war causes the Earth to transfer energy to the Moon, which in turn gives it a larger orbit.

And the larger orbit is what is causing the Moon to slowly recede from Earth at the rate of around one and a half inches per year.

Going a little more in depth, there are many theories floating around concerning the fate of the Earth and the oceans without the gravitational force from the Moon. I will discuss this at a later time, but a popular theory is once the Moon reaches a certain distance away, more than likely when it's rotation reaches over 40 days as opposed to the 27.3 now, both Earth and the Moon will become tidally locked to each other.

Tidal locking is when one astronomical body always faces another. Our Moon tidally locked to Earth, which means the same side always faces us, hence the term, 'Dark side of the Moon.' But many theorize the Moon and Earth could one day become tidally locked to each other, meaning the same side of Earth would always face the Moon.

While it is more rare for two astronomical bodies to both be tidally locked to one another, it does occur. Pluto and it's moon, Charon, are the best examples of this within our own Solar System. This usually happens when both objects are similar in mass and relatively close together.

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Old 07-07-2012, 01:42 AM
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Default Re: Comet's Astronomy Workshop

Quote:
Is the Moon Moving Away From the Earth?

The short answer is yes, the Moon's orbit is indeed moving it away from Earth in a higher orbit by approximately one and a half inches a year.

But why is this happening?
Because the mass of the moon is EVER SO SLIGHTLY greater than the gravitational pull of the earth on it...

We are INCREDIBLY lucky this isn't a mile a year or even greater...It would've been long gone by now...
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Old 07-07-2012, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: Comet's Astronomy Workshop

Well, when you think about it, isn't it incredible how this universe is, and that it is so perfectly fine-tuned and can sustain life. Mind-boggling in fact.
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:20 AM
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Default Re: Comet's Astronomy Workshop

Quote:
Is the Moon Moving Away From the Earth?

The short answer is yes, the Moon's orbit is indeed moving it away from Earth in a higher orbit by approximately one and a half inches a year.

But why is this happening?
Maybe it's our deodorant?
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:30 AM
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Maybe it's our deodorant?
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Old 07-07-2012, 07:59 AM
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Default Re: Comet's Astronomy Workshop

Ok, I've got a stupid question.......


After all of that wonder information and all of the talk about pulling and pushing, how can they measure an inch over a years time with a distance that great.......?


Are they only going from one spot at certain exact orbits or is this done with satellites......?

I have no clue about this stuff but find it fascinating........

Great thread btw........
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Comet's Astronomy Workshop

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Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
Ok, I've got a stupid question.......


After all of that wonder information and all of the talk about pulling and pushing, how can they measure an inch over a years time with a distance that great.......?


Are they only going from one spot at certain exact orbits or is this done with satellites......?

I have no clue about this stuff but find it fascinating........

Great thread btw........
Great question, Dave. The answer is by a large reflector on the Moon. We can bounce lasers off of it and receive an accurate reading of the distance from Earth to the Moon within less than half an inch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_L...ing_experiment

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Old 07-11-2012, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Comet's Astronomy Workshop

Random Quick Fact - When we observe planets and other celestial objects in the universe, we are actually looking into the past.

For example, if you view a distant sun six billion light years away, you are actually seeing it as it was six billion years ago, because that is how long it takes for the light to reach Earth.

This is one of many factors that will make finding life in the universe more complicated. If we found a planet within the Goldilocks zone seven billion light years away that possessed all the tools necessary for life but saw no physical evidence, it would not necessarily mean there is not life there now. It means there was no life seven billion years ago, but could potentially have life now.

For example, if someone on a planet four billion light years away were to observe Earth, there would be no evidence of life, though there would be other methods to determine the existence of life. But simply physically observing our planet would show no signs of life, seeing it would be showing Earth four billion years ago and our planet is only slightly over four and a half billion years old.
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Comet's Astronomy Workshop

Comet, Love this information.

I hate to be a pest, but I would really love to see you take on science fiction. A lot of us nerds are science fiction junkies and love how there is this boundary pushing relationship between science and science fiction.

Example: The PADD from Star Trek. Look back twenty/twenty-five years ago and you've got Picard reading books on a small portable flat screen computer. That was fiction at the time, but today with nooks and ipads, everyone's doing it.

Can you attribute any specific advances in astronomy to science fiction?
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Comet's Astronomy Workshop

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
Comet, Love this information.

I hate to be a pest, but I would really love to see you take on science fiction. A lot of us nerds are science fiction junkies and love how there is this boundary pushing relationship between science and science fiction.

Example: The PADD from Star Trek. Look back twenty/twenty-five years ago and you've got Picard reading books on a small portable flat screen computer. That was fiction at the time, but today with nooks and ipads, everyone's doing it.

Can you attribute any specific advances in astronomy to science fiction?
You would prefer hard science fiction regarding novels, which places more emphasis on detail and accuracy.

Hard science fiction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In regards to your last question, there have been many recent breakthroughs in science that could have an effect on books and movies. Take your Star Trek for example with it's warp speed.

Warp drives may come with a killer downside

Quote:
Planning a little space travel to see some friends on Kepler 22b? Thinking of trying out your newly-installed FTL3000 Alcubierre Warp Drive to get you there in no time? Better not make it a surprise visit — your arrival may end up disintegrating anyone there when you show up.

“Warp” technology and faster-than-light (FTL) space travel has been a staple of science fiction for decades. The distances in space are just so vast and planetary systems — even within a single galaxy — are spaced so far apart, such a concept is needed to make casual human exploration feasible (and fit within the comforts of people’s imagination as well… nobody wants to think about Kirk and Spock bravely going to some alien planet while everyone they’ve ever known dies of old age!)

While many factors involving FTL travel are purely theoretical — and may remain in the realm of imagination for a very long time, if not ever — there are some concepts that play well with currently-accepted physics.

The Alcubierre warp drive is one of those concepts.

Proposed by Mexican theoretical physicist Miguel Alcubierre in 1994, the drive would propel a ship at superluminal speeds by creating a bubble of negative energy around it, expanding space (and time) behind the ship while compressing space in front of it. In much the same way that a surfer rides a wave, the bubble of space containing the ship and its passengers would be pushed at velocities not limited to the speed of light toward a destination.

Of course, when the ship reaches its destination it has to stop. And that’s when all hell breaks loose.

Researchers from the University of Sydney have done some advanced crunching of numbers regarding the effects of FTL space travel via Alcubierre drive, taking into consideration the many types of cosmic particles that would be encountered along the way. Space is not just an empty void between point A and point B… rather, it’s full of particles that have mass (as well as some that do not.) What the research team — led by Brendan McMonigal, Geraint Lewis, and Philip O’Byrne — has found is that these particles can get “swept up” into the warp bubble and focused into regions before and behind the ship, as well as within the warp bubble itself.

When the Alcubierre-driven ship decelerates from superluminal speed, the particles its bubble has gathered are released in energetic outbursts. In the case of forward-facing particles the outburst can be very energetic — enough to destroy anyone at the destination directly in front of the ship.

“Any people at the destination,” the team’s paper concludes, “would be gamma ray and high energy particle blasted into oblivion due to the extreme blueshifts for [forward] region particles.”

In other words, don’t expect much of a welcome party.

Another thing the team found is that the amount of energy released is dependent on the length of the superluminal journey, but there is potentially no limit on its intensity.

“Interestingly, the energy burst released upon arriving at the destination does not have an upper limit,” McMonigal told Universe Today in an email. “You can just keep on traveling for longer and longer distances to increase the energy that will be released as much as you like, one of the odd effects of General Relativity. Unfortunately, even for very short journeys the energy released is so large that you would completely obliterate anything in front of you.”

So how to avoid disintegrating your port of call? It may be as simple as just aiming your vessel a bit off to the side… or, it may not. The research only focused on the planar space in front of and behind the warp bubble; deadly postwarp particle beams could end up blown in all directions!

Luckily for Vulcans, Tatooinians and any acquaintances on Kepler 22b, the Alcubierre warp drive is still very much theoretical. While the mechanics work with Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity, the creation of negative energy densities is an as-of-yet unknown technology — and may be impossible.

Which could be a very good thing for us, should someone out there be planning a surprise visit our way!
http://phys.org/news/2012-03-warp-killer-downside.html

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