You said a TRUE JEW...a true Jew is someone that ACTUALLY does God's will, not what they think is Gods will. Thus, according to scripture, not the "OPINION OF MAN", the true Jewish nation of Israel is now only "spiritual" as it has been raised from the dead with Christ Jesus now sitting on the throne of David. The "posers" in the middle east can call themselves what they want, but this still does not make them.....national Israel of the Scriptures. BD

Hmmmm... so is the Old Testament then not divinely inspired? I feel like the old testament, the Torah, is what the Jews follow. If that is as divinely inspired as the New Testament, are they not doing Gods will? Much as the Christians belief that the New Testament is divinely inspired means that they are doing Gods will in following it?

On the flip side, if one is saying that the Old Testament is not divinely inspired, doesn't that make the New Testament suspect?

So is the "poser" the person who thinks they are doing God's will by following the old testament(simply because they believe that Christ was a nice fellow but not the son of God), or the person who every Sunday goes to church and behaves like a Saint for four hours, then hits the bar on the way home for a little extra sacramental wine?

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Circular reasoning? Sure, the Old Scriptures are inspired, and they foretold of a New Covenant, "UNLIKE" the one delivered by Moses on Mt. Sinai---Jeremiah 31:31-34, "Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY THAT I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO BRING THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; which my covenant THEY BRAKE, although I was A HUSBAND UNTO TO THEM, saith the Lord; But this SHALL BE THE COVENANT.......I will put MY LAW in the inward parts, an write it upon their hearts...."

Thus, God indeed has changed the manner in which ALL MEN are to worship him and this change came with the words of the New Covenant carried upon the the teachings of Christ Jesus, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds." (Hebrews 1:1-2).

Jesus fulfilled the Old Law--Matthew 5:17-18. In clearer words, as delivered by the apostle Paul, he brought it to its intended close by completing the requirements there of--Romans 10:4. When did this change take place? Again Paul explains that the old Law which was written on stone were done away with -- Col. 2:14, 2 Cor. chapter 3.

Now you can call a person a true Jew if you want to. But I prefer to follow the scriptures. I would not consider anyone a true Jew that has been found guilty of killing the son of God, and thusly being punished for that breach of the law, and then suffering by the will of God to be completely destroyed in the same Generation of Christ, in the lst century, thusly having their kingdom taken from them with the exception of a "faithful core" that now worships in the righteous manner of Christianity, as declared by God in his Holy Scriptures. Which we are told we are to be sanctified in and which that same word of sanctification is truth----John 17:17. Now after over 2000 years of being "dead in the eyes of God", and existing only in a "spiritual sense" with Christ sitting on the throne of David in that spiritual kingdom (Acts 2: 15-31), we are now to believe that this nation has been physically reborn in the middle east after being dead for over 2000 years. Really? I have looked over the entirety of the scriptures, both Old and New and cannot seem to have located any prophecy concerning a "rebirth" of physical Israel after a 2000 year old death. Perhaps, you might point out the book, chapter, and verse. If not, would "you" believe that I am Ben Franklin, if I placed a powdered wig upon my head, and starting flying a kite in a thunderstorm, while espousing sayings such as, A STITCH IN TIME SAVES NINE? Are we really that gullible? Do you think that these people are "sanctified" in the entirety of GODS WORD? If you do, just ask them what they think about the entire Bible, to include the NEW TESTAMENT....be careful, not to get spit upon. Do I respect these people? I sure as hell do, but it is not for some misunderstood Old Testament prophecy, but rather because they are one of only a handful of somewhat democratic governments located right in the middle of middle age theological despotism. No other reason, than they are our allies in the fight for freedom to that region. BD

I do not call it circular reasoning... I think it is called unbiased thinking. You know, looking at the facts presented instead of taking cues from someone else.

As ar as Jesus bringing that new covenant... that is your belief. The Jews of today DO NOT BELIEVE that Jesus brought anything... he was a nice man and a pretty good carpenter, it's too bad what they did to him.

As far as your assertion of who killed the "son of god"... well, again, they did nothing they were not preordained to do.

Interesting, your Ben Franklin reference. Of course I would not believe you were Ben Franklin... there is no proof. Much as to why I do not believe the bible is divinely inspired, or even true for that matter... there is no proof. If I were to believe in God, it would be because he gave me the ability to think, and not just to blindly follow. I have problems believing anything that comes from a book that is the greatest tool used to justify hatred, prejudice, and murder our world has EVER known.

In refernceing the "True Jew"... are you only including Israelis? Personally, I would think anyone who actually practices the Jewish faith would be a true Jew. 85% of our country say they are Christian... of those, how many do you think are real Christians?

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It seems strange that you do not consider it circular reasoning when, it was you that first questioned the validity of the scriptures as to their divine inspiration, and then try to use them make your point, and then when confronted with what they "actually" say, again you declare that "I" have suggested the Old Testament was not inspired. And this IS NOT circular? And then again you declare that the Jews should have a right to worship how they wish and that they were preordained to KILL the Son of God. But, it is the scriptures that declare that man is made in the image of God due to their free will actions in determining right from wrong (Genesis 3:22), "And the Lord God said, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil, and now least he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever." My head is still spinning from your "NON-CIRCULAR REASONING". And as far as what YOU or I think does not doctrine make....our doctrine comes from what is revealed from God as stated in the word of God, "The secret things belong to the Lord our God; but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we many do all the WORDS of this law." (Deut. 29:29). And are we not instructed to take our doctrine from the revealed Word and not from the OPINIONS of men? "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for DOCTRINE, for REPROOF , for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION in righteousness: That the man of God may be PERFECT, THROUGHLY furnished unto all goods works." ( 2 Tim 3:16-17)

So which is it? Are the scriptures divinely inspired or not? Or are they only inspired when you perhaps think, you have a point to prove, and when confronted with the actual truth of what they declare, you believe they are not so divinely inspired? I CALL THIS CIRCULAR LOGIC, springing from the opportunity that rests only in the gray matter between your ears....NO? Again the "sanctified" truth of God's word, declares there is only one true path to the righteousness of God, and that path leads through the teachings of Jesus. So, am I concerned what other people wish to declare, that is not from the revealed truth of God? No, not really, for their beliefs do not offer the salvation found in the TRUTH. There are some 2/3 of the world's population that worship some other form of religion, but this does not invalidate the truth of Christianity, just as someone's opinion does not offer anything contrary to the truth found in the revealed word of God. BD

I actually first questioned whether or not you believed them to be divinely inspired, I do not believe them to be so.

My opinion is also that regardless of what they bible says, if Jews do not believe in the New Testament, they are still True Jews.

I do not believe I ever said that YOU believe the Old Testament is not divinely inspired. I think you just plucked that out of thin air actually.

Well, reason this out. Had the Jews not crucified Jesus, would there be Christianity today? The answer is no. Jesus died as a martyr for his beliefs. Again, this is going by the bible. His martyrdom gained popularity. A little later, some politicians saw how easily controlled the masses were by the religions, and decided to "help" organize, and control it... welcome to the beginnings of Christianity

Your next line made me giggle a little. Faith comes first from thought. So what you or I think, is exactly what gives the supposed word of god it's power to create "doctrine". If I tell you you will be killed if you eat cotton candy will you believe it? I should hope not, yet if it was in the bible, I am sure it would be on your top ten do not eat list.

They bible is never divinely inspired. However, that does not mean that in a debate with someone who bases pretty much all their thought(at least in this matter) on that book, I cannot look to that book as a point of reference. I can also look into the teachings from that book that have been passed down. The prjudices of one that have been passed down into the interpretations of said book.

Well, the last thing is, why is your bible the "truth"? Now, you obviously cannot use the bible to prove itself. That would mean I could use the book "It" by Stephen King to prove that there are absolutely clowns that live in sewers and can come up through faucets in your bathroom. It says so in the book, so it must be true, and there are stories in the book to support it. No.

Interesting tidbit... the new and old testaments are two very seperate books, that were voted on to be put together. If it was divinely inspired, why did the vote need to take place at all?

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You prefer your "scriptures", or at least your hateful interpretations of them.


I prefer human beings, myself. Antisemites are not true humans, but merely some ugly form of life that choses to hate Jewish people in order to assuage their own feelings of worthlessness.

The bible is TRUTH....because it has NEVER been proven anything other than truth. The prophecies contained therein have been proven true, even by YOUR own words, as you pointed out the Jews were guilty of fulfilling the prophecy of killing Jesus. The words of Christ were confirmed by signs and wonders and witnessed by 27 books detailing such. And despite the countless attacks on the validity of these truths....no material evidence has been presented that declare anything other than what is written to be true. If you have any real evidence to base your "warrant less" opinions concerning these writings to be untrue please present it. Opinion does not evidence make, as you offer NOTHING but "vain babblings". Please present "YOUR" evidence that any of the miraculous wonders performed by the Christ was not real or did not occur. There is nothing written in the scriptures, as I pointed that validates anyone worshiping outside the written words as a TRUE JEW, a person that is performing the will of God as it is revealed. There are no biblical examples of any surviving Jews left from the Israel of the Bible, which was destroyed in the physical sense 2000 years ago. The people that "pretend" to be JEWS of the scriptures worship in vain, according to the written word of God and the New Covenant that was placed into effect upon the death of Christ. Your Opinionated Babblings does not constitute TRUTH as does the written word of God, it only constitutes vain babble, which we are instructed to avoid, "Of these things put them in rememberance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. Study (an example you should follow if you wish to confront the written truth with nonsense) to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But SHUN PROFANE AND VAIN BABBLINGS; for they will increase unto more UNGODLINESS." ( 2 Timothy 2:14-16) BD

[quote=Blue Dog;19361]NO I prefer TRUTH....it is YOU apparently that wishes your ears to be tickled, by lies. I "defy" you to find one "untruth" in the words that I presented, that is not found in the written word of God. The truth hurts sometimes, but still it is the truth, just because you happen to disagree with the words that were written by the Holy Spirit of God does not invalidate them. And simply reading and "comprehending" the passages presented does not constitute "interpretation", it merely constitutes understanding what is written by taking the entire context of the message presented in any chapter that is read. BD

I don't think being Jewish is a race or ethnicity because after all religion is something you choose. I don't buy into the nonsense that just because your dad is Jewish that makes you Jewish as well,especially considering the fact you can convert to it or leave it.You can't convert to race or leave a race.You can also convert to another nationality as well.

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