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Religion & Philosophy Discuss Religion and rationality at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by Base Stuart Chase said, “For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don’t believe, ...

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Old 07-18-2021, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Religion and rationality

Originally Posted by Base View Post
Stuart Chase said, “For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don’t believe, no proof is possible.”

It's called faith for a reason.

The above is the kind of saying that assumes "Faith" is ONLY a mind game.
Rather than something that should be based on facts available.

Similar to someone having "faith" that their spouse will pick them up from work because they said they would.
That's FAITH. based on experience from the relationship.
or When someone gets on an airplane they have "FAITH" that it's in good working order based on the record of planes and the company.
or When someone goes to a tour bus in foreign country there's FAITH put in a guides that they will not lead them into dangerous areas. Based on various recommendations of people they may or may not know well.
or Taking medicine from doctors, filled by pharmacist and getting risky surgeries all imply a level of FAITH.
Different issues imply different areas and amounts of FAITH based on our varying levels of ...frankly... personal ignorance.

Jesus commended a military man's Faith, who BASED ON on what he had seen and heard of him, recognized not just the power but also the authority of Jesus. And knew that Jesus had the authority to simply speak and it would be done. Like a military order, it's simply done down the line. Because it's an order from the top.

Jesus commended the faith of men who broke open a roof to lower a friend down to Jesus for healing. They understood that Jesus had the power to help if they could get their friend to him. BASED ON what they had seen and heard Jesus did for others.

Not just some head game
or mental concoctions.

The real honest question is HOW MUCH evidence is enough for each person.
As mentioned before Jesus's disciple Thomas said he would not believe unless he put his hands into Jesus's hands and side.
But when it came right down to it, what it really took was Thomas seeing him.
But Jesus said most would not have that privileged, however they were to be his witness. Give their EYEwitness testimony. (along with confirmations of spirit and miracles) to the events.
Which they did... until they day they die... or were killed for doing so.

God, Jesus, the prophets never ask people to believe blindly, there's always some rational ground pointed to showing who they are and why they should be believed.

Jesus told the religious leaders of the day
IF you don't believe my words
THEN believe me because of what you've seen me DO. Speaking of miracles.
And the rising from the dead was the ultimate showcase. (and Work)

Also it must be said, that once Thomas saw Jesus, Jesus still said to him.
"Don't be faithless but believe"

that is have Faith AFTER he saw him. PROOF looking at him in the face.
He still asked to him to believe. To Believe in in him in toto.

Getting a text message from a neighbor saying your spouse SAID they will pick you up at 6, and BELIEVING it, are NOT the same thing. Someone's Faith (or lack of) in the spouse IS in the head of person who believes (or not) it but it doesn't really change the FACT of whether or not the spouse is on the way.
That reality of the ride on the way is true or it's not.
Hope is the dream of the waking man.

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8

Last edited by mr wonder; 07-18-2021 at 07:47 PM..
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