Thank you for your reply MrSmith764. Even though I disagree with you on most points I have made a concerted effort to not condescend to you. If I have failed in that effort I apologize. I will be grateful for the same effort in return.

Please do not assume that I do not "grasp" what Jesus is saying. I was raised mainstream Christian and I am truly not in need of a refresher course--lol. Let's keep in mind that Jesus himself was not a Christian. He was Jew--hoping to reform Judiasm. So for him to be telling a parable about a "true christian" versus a "false christian" is highly unlikely. IMO he was talking about society at large, but I'll even hazard the thought that he might have been referring to only Jews. That's a possiblillty too. There was no such thing as a Christian during Jesus' lifetime. Your thoughts that he was referring to Christians is opinion as well. We would both do well to remember that we are both conversing from opinion.

And yes, thanks, I do realize that the "enemy" is "satan." As I said--I do indeed grasp the deeper meaning here. I don't agree with your nuanced interpretation that it applies only to Christians. I said that too. I would be very happy to continue this discussion with us realizing that neither of us is going to convert the other to anything. That's when the debating gets really fun!

Please continue to come here and share your thoughts with us. You are very welcome here, and I have enjoyed your presence, as have others.

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Being raised a mainstream Christian as you call it does not really prove that you would understand the scriptures. It is God who grants one the ability to understand His world via the Holy Spirit, so it does not reason to say I know what Jesus is talking about simply because you were raised a mainstream Christian.

The statement that you made that Jesus was not a Christian but a Jew, to me is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. Who do Christians say is their savior? Who is it that taught the disciples and where and whom did they preached Jesus' message? How did the Gentiles came to know the name of Jesus? Christians are called Christians because they believe and follow Jesus, who was born a Jew. Besides, if you study the scriptures and by the Holy Spirit, you will see that a true Jew is one to whom the Holy Spirit resides.

Jesus never intended nor did He indicate that His intention was to reform Judaism....Judaism is separate Religion from Christianity; this is evident from the scriptures for those who has eyes to see. If Jesus had intended to reform Judaism then it would have been reformed; instead He started His Church, first by calling and training 12 men for three and a half years. In fact He even told the Pharisees that the kingdom of God will be taken away from them and given to a Nation producing its fruits. This is hardly at best the words of anyone who is trying to reform Judaism.

When Jesus spoke He was not only addressing only those who literally heard His voice, but also those of His people who would be reading it in the pages of the Bible. The term Christian was not coined by Christians, but by none Christians. Christians were known as disciples or followers of Jesus. The term Christian was not used by none believers in the beginning as a term of endearment but as a put-down. But the disciples/followers of Christ were not a shamed of His name so they welcome it with open arms.


So to say that there were no Christians, which is the same as saying there were no disciples/followers of Jesus when He said those words is also misleading and is false....Jesus' first disciples were just that, disciples/followers of Jesus, and when He told the parables He later explained it to His disciples/followers.....all Jesus' parables were about the kingdom of God, and to which He later explained to His fowwers the meaning.

I would even dare say that most who call themselves Christians have little idea of what the Kingdom of God not only is but what it is about.

Okay--I have just now been told for a second time that I am too stupid to understand scripture. Is it just me or does anybody else here see someone that doesn't grasp the meaning of the word "condescension?" Keep in mind that it is *I* who is the one who is incapable of grasping concepts, though.

I will not continue to debate with that undertone present. I find it disrespectful. I've given this thread a second chance. A third will not be necessary. It's fortunate for you MrSmith that this is a moderated forum. When it comes to someone looking down their nose at me I am not nearly as gracious about it as some of the other folks here. The peeps who know me from Yahoo pretty much know how I would handle the condescension were the forum unmoderated (and the ones who see this will probably get a good chuckle out of the thought too), and I can assure you that you would look pretty darn foolish. However, I like this forum and I am not about to get booted over one member with annoying "debate" tactics.

What is it that is inside of you that is so fragile that the only way you will live your life is by clinging to the belief that you are (in any way) superior to other people?


By the way that's a rhetorical question. Something just tells me I need to say that.

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You need to show me where did I say that you’re too stupid to understand the scripture? The scriptures tell us that there are spiritual things that some people cannot understand. So does that mean that what this person (Paul) is saying is that these people are stupid?

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Was Jesus telling the disciples that they were stupid because He said that what He wanted to tell them they could not handle it now? After all He said in the following verse that He would send/give them the Spirit that would show them the truth. Were they too stupid at that point to know what the truth is?

John 16:12-13 (KJV)
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.



A rhetorical question like that should not go un-responded to. When did I say that I am superior to other people? Could it be that it's your perception that is the problem?

You know sometimes how one feels about what another person is saying can be a reflection of what is inside that person making that accusation. I would like to know this, since when a person's lack of understanding or a person's inability to understand something means that that person is inferior? If you have children, do you believe that you are superior to them when you tell them that they are too young to understand certain things?

If you really believe that because someone says that you don't understand a matter, its because you are inferior, then you have a serious problem.


Maybe their might be something that I have said that I should not have said, or said in another way but to say that I believe I am superior to you or anyone is silly.

I don't KNOW that Mr.Smith has been intentionally condescending, but it certainly seems that way when reading his posts. Sadly, perception is something that is not easily corrected online.

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The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.

-- Hitler, April 11 1942