The Grassley investigation got me thinking about this...

Do any of our members have opinions on the concept of 'Prosperity Gospel? (sometimes also called 'Word-Faith')

There seems to be a healthy bit of like AND dislike on this subject out there on the internet.

Here is a google search link so you can read up on it if you aren't familiar with the concept.

What is your general opinion of this as a religious belief, and more specifically as a Christian belief?

I wish I've heard of it...I'm gonna have to do some research...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

What is that, is it the same as the health wealth gospel?

The health wealth gospel is that if you are truly a Christian and is obedient to God, He will bless you materialy. It's a belief that if you are not materialy blessed, then it means your living in sin.


Of course such statement is false because it flies in the face of the scriptures. It is true that God has blessed many of His people with physical wealth, but it is equally true that many if not most were not wealthy people at all. In fact some of God's people were hated and persecuted.

No stress, dude. I hadn't heard of it until reading the article about Grassley's investigation.

I was simply wondering how assorted folk, that identify themselves as Christian, would veiw this.

Sounds like it. I hadn't heard of either one until yesterday.

Edited to change this section:

Apparently it is NOT the same now that I read more on the subject.

There is Postitive Confession:
Positive Confession and the Believer (Official A/G Position Paper)

There's Prosperity Gospel
Prosperity theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And the 'health and wealth' sounds like the word of faith:
Word of Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That does seem to be the thrust of it, even though there seems to be a bit of variation. It seems to focus mainly on the potency of faith.

Bear this in mind, as we converse... I am not a Christian, but I do generally respect Christian beliefs. I do tend to challenge ideas, so don't take it as a slam on your belief system when I do.

That said, on to my reply...

It is true that many people in the Bible suffered... I feel a lot of that doctrine is about controlling the masses, but nevermind that for right now.


Christ himself DID say that if a person has the faith as small as a mustard seed you can move mountains. It seems to me, based on that, gaining material wealth could easily be seen as falling into the same category.

Now... There are a large variety of Christians because of different belief systems. So I will ask, how it flies in the face of scripture? I have a general concept of course, but I would appreciate hearing what you think.

The Bible is a spiritual book, so when I study it I see the spiritual lessions that it is teaching. Jesus is saying their is no sin that is too big that if we have even the smalest amount of faith cannot remove.

The Bible is not about physical wealth, but about spiritual wealth. Even in the old testament when God promist physical blessings on the children of Israel, the Israelites were a type of the Church, the true people of God.

Well all one need to do is study the New Testament and see how Paul and many of the Christians were persecuted. Read the Book of Revelation and you will see how some of God's people will be persecuted by what the Bible calls the Beast. The two witnesses that will be cloth in sack cloth, and murdered, does not sound like people were of physical wealth. John the Baptize was cloth in sack cloth and ate locus and wild honey. These are not people of financial wealth.

To have wealth is not a sin in its self; God is the wealthiest being there is, but their must be priority; we, and I'm speaking of Christians must learn humility. we must first show God that no matter how we suffer we will not depart from God. It is not that God love to see us suffer why we must suffer, it’s because God will give us all things. Giving us all things includes His unlimited power and might. Power without humility is a very very dangerous thing to have because we will abuse it. All we need to do is look around us and see the abuse of the very little power the man has and see.

If wealth was a sign of righteousness, then Jesus was not sinless, because He was not a man of physical wealth. In fact His ministry was financially supported by some of the women, I believe Mary or Martha I am not certain which one at this time; it may have been by both. He was a carpenter's son, but the scriptures does not tell us that Jesus spend a lot of time working as a carpenter......He was too busy doing His Father's work.

Admittedly I did a cursory perusal of the links provided, but I got the gist of some of it. As far as the Prosperity Gospel issue I can remember being taught that people who suffered weren't necessarily suffering because they were "bad." "Good" people suffered too, and the same applied to wealth. I was brought up in a very mainstream protestant sect for what that's worth.

And another thing which makes me wonder why Christians would accept that explanation (especially from filthy rich televangelists--and I most definitely do NOT mean that as a slam on the religion either) is the passage in the NT about the poor woman giving what few pennies she had to her synagogue. And if I recall correctly it was Jesus who said that her few pennies meant far more than huge donations from rich parishoners since she was actually sacrificing by making the donation she did.

Granted I'm a former Christian but I'm wondering if some Christians aren't being suckered by it.

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There is something to the teachings, but it is not the message of Christianity, which is:
That stated, I will address the subject.
Some Christian leaders combine (or confuse) Dale Carnegie type speeches with good preaching. To an extent this can be a good thing to help motivate a congregation to better their circumstances as a community.
But it really gets touchy when these people are motivated to write more checks.
I cannot speak for the personal morals of any evangelical-TV or otherwise.
But when the focus is shifted from the pure message, danger arises. Temptation to greed is probably the driving force behind most sin and believe me, the devil knows it!
the reason I said there is something to all this is because (as any motivational message shows) vocal positives do help most people complete their goals. Likewise, vocal negatives reinforce thoughts of inadequacy.
Also there is a reference to "speaking" in the bible used by many believers.
Jesus told Peter "Get thee behind me, Satan". He also was tempted three times in the garden (by Satan) and three times resisted. Some people think if they say, "I rebuke thee, Satan, in the name of Jesus Christ!" three times, they can resist temptation or even illness.
Also there is something positive in touch (often a focus of evangelists; healers).
But your own touch to your own skin while meditating or praying can do the same thing these TV guys can do.
In short, we are supposed to call attention to the ministry not the minister. But as I say it is a slippery slope when one sets out to condemn a certain technique. That's what started that whole "reformation thing"

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Salty

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Exactly...far too many Christians are infatuated with a particularly gifted pastor or priest.So much so that it can become a real issue within their faith and church.I have seen this happen,members of the church will leave and follow a pastor or priest when they are reassigned to another church! Some will even follow them to another state.They can lose focus on the message and fall in love with the clergy's personality or style.This becomes even more difficult when the pastor or priest they follow falls out of grace.They can then become sceptical of the message.

Focus on the message not on the person who delivers it...

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"Destiny must be shaped and not left to mere chance."..Spencer Collins

Jesus said that His sheep hears His voice; which means that they will not be following those who claim to be of God but are just enriching themselves. There will always be false ministers deceiving and being deceived. Remember also the parable that Jesus told of the wheat and the tare.