I do not subscribe to the theory of predestination,I believe it is "possible" for people to be "snatched" away.In fact,this happened to a close friend of mine.He and his wife were agnostics for many years. They got caught up in the 700 club,they became "believers" until the Bakers corrupted themselves.Anyway..they have returned to their agnostic ways.Was this predestined? I doubt it,more likely it was Satan who saw yet another opportunity.

__________________
"Destiny must be shaped and not left to mere chance."..Spencer Collins

You may not believe in it, but that Bible speak about Christians being predested to be conformed to the image of Jesus.

Romans 8:29 (KJV)
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:30 (KJV)
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

No one can snatch God's children out from God's hands, which means if they went back to being unbelievers its because they were not really Christians at all.


John 10:29-30 (KJV)
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.


predestinate,
Greek Word: προορίζω
Transliteration: proorizō
Phonetic Pronunciation: pro-or-id'-zo
Root: from <G4253> and <G3724>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 5:456,728
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Determine, Determinate, Predestinate




from <G4253> (pro) and <G3724> (horizo); to limit in advance, i.e. (figurative) predetermine :- determine before, ordain, predestinate.

The debate on predestination is an old debate but an interesting debate!

If God has already elected those who are going to heaven, then why evangelize, seek to be saved, or even follow God's path?

If God predestined everything, then there is no use in praying for your friends or family.

If God predestined everything, then why eternally condemn the non-elect? After all, it is not their fault.. they were predestined to be damned!

__________________
"Destiny must be shaped and not left to mere chance."..Spencer Collins

In order for those who are predestined to be called, those whom already have respond to that call need to preach that same gospel so that others like themselves that are predestined can hear the gospel and respond it.

I am not saying that those who are not elected will be condemned. I have done a little Bible study on this but unfortunately it’s too large to post on this forum, but if you like I could send it to you or anyone who would like to read it. Just send me an email at this address, Briansamit1040@Yahoo.com in the subject aria type in “God's plan of salvation.”

“The doctrine of election declares that God, before the foundation of the world, chose certain individuals to be the objects of His undeserved favor. These, and these only, He purposed to save.".. Steele & Thomas


· In contrast to the above claim, other passages assert that God indeed offers salvation to all men, and not just a particular group that He has previously selected (John 3:16; 1 Timothy 2:4 “who desires all men to be saved”; 2:6 “who gave Himself as a ransom for all”; Titus 2:11 “For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men”).



· Why would Jesus have the gospel preached to all creation (Mark 16:16; Matthew 28:19), if God has already decided who will be saved and this has nothing to do with their response to God or His truth?



· Why would God give definite conditions for salvation, if His eternal choice of particular sinners unto salvation was not based upon any foreseen act or response on the part of those selected, but was based solely on His own good pleasure and sovereign will. Why then all the commands to “believe” (John 3:16; Mark 16:16; Hebrews 11:6); repent (Luke 13:1-3; Acts 17:30; 2:38; 2 Corinthians 7:10-11); confess (Romans 10:9-10); be baptized (Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; 1 Peter 3:21), and live a life of faithfulness (Hebrews 5:9)? All of these passages are both false and unnecessary is the denominational theory of predestination is true.



· Why is God waiting for men to come to repentance, if repentance has nothing to do with one’s salvation? (2 Peter 3:9). Remember, this is not the repentance of the predestined, for God saves people without any consideration of their future response.

Does God desire that all be saved? Yes..but we must make a choice!

God knew the choice we would make but that is not "predestination" it is his supreme knowledge and his benevolent gift of free will. In this gift he shows not only his love for his creation but also his respect by allowing choice.

Pax Christi <><

Spencer

__________________
"Destiny must be shaped and not left to mere chance."..Spencer Collins

Here are the scriptures that these men were quoting.

Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

1 Peter 1:20 (KJV)
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

You need to understand this, God has chosen a selected few before time began for a special purpose. You also need to know that the scriptures tell us that all whoever lived and died without hope will be brought back to their former state, then God will pure out His Holy Spirit on them as He has done to Christians now.

You in addition to the about the saints at Jesus' return will rule with Him in His kingdom, which will be set up on the earth in Jerusalem. This is when God will set out to save the rest of humanity. All this is supported in the Bible yet so few seem to see it.

And you need to know this,if you support predestination as opposed to foreknowledge, it matters not what any of us believe as everything was decided long ago..

I believe that God gave me free will,I was offered the gift of faith and accepted it.I did not earn my salvation,I accepted it willingly and joyfuly.I believe that he "knew"..."foreknowledge" that I would accept his offer but I believe he also gave me the right to decline!

Far too many people confuse predestination with foreknowledge and they are not the same! Predestination in the narrow sense, negates mans free will in accepting God's message of salvation.

Anyway..we are straying far off topic here,the topic is Prosperity Gospel.
Perhaps we can start a thread on predestination and resume the discussion.

__________________
"Destiny must be shaped and not left to mere chance."..Spencer Collins

Who is to say that the Christian God has not predestined some to preach the pPosperity Gospel?

If God works as is his will, there is no way to truly know.

Caveot Emptor...it's a free country until the tax man is breathing down their necks..

I'm sure that God wants all of us to prosper including the "preachers" as long as we render to Cesar the things that are Caesar's and we render to God the things that are God's

__________________
"Destiny must be shaped and not left to mere chance."..Spencer Collins

I have already shown you what the Greek word "proorizō" means but I guess you chose to ingnore it. God not only predestined those whom will be conformed to the image of His Son, He also had foreknowlege of them....so its not either or, its both.

Jeremiah 1:5 (KJV)
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.