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Religion & Philosophy Discuss A heartbreaking Supreme Court case could be a huge win for the Christian right at the General Discussion; The far Left Vox raises alarms about a case the SCOTUS agreed to hear. The first is the story of ...

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Old 11-29-2019, 02:15 PM
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Default A heartbreaking Supreme Court case could be a huge win for the Christian right

The far Left Vox raises alarms about a case the SCOTUS agreed to hear.

Quote:
The first is the story of Muhammad Tanvir, the plaintiff at the heart of the case, and this first story is likely to inspire a great deal of sympathy among liberals. Tanvir says he was approached by two FBI agents who asked him “whether he had anything he ‘could share’ with the FBI about the American Muslim community.” After Tanvir told the agents that he did not wish to become an informant, those agents allegedly threatened him with deportation and placed him on the “No Fly List.”

Because of this treatment, Tanvir also claims that he was unable to fly to see his ailing mother in Pakistan, and that he had to quit a job as a long-haul trucker because he could no longer fly home to New York after a one-way delivery.

The core issue in Tanvir’s lawsuit is whether he may sue these FBI agents for money damages under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), a federal law protecting religious liberty.
The core issue is the FBI'S potential abuse of authority particularly their decision to place Tanvir on the no fly list. But VOX cannot resist the opportunity for hysteria.

Quote:
that brings us to the second story that can be told about Tanvir — a story that will inspire very little sympathy from anyone on the political left. If the Supreme Court holds that such lawsuits are permitted under RFRA, the biggest winner is unlikely to be religious minorities like Tanvir. Rather, the biggest winner is likely to be the Christian right.

RFRA, after all, is the same statute at issue in Burwell v. Hobby Lobby (2014), the Supreme Court’s decision allowing business owners to deny birth control coverage to their employees if the owner objects to contraception on religious grounds. More recently, in Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission (2018), the Court signaled that government officials attempting to enforce an anti-discrimination law may be violating an individual’s religious liberty by doing so.
Notice the reversal from protecting civil rights to curbing the freedom of religion. Constitutional rights are subservient to local ordinances when they interfere with the preferences of a favored minority group such as a Christian bakery owner refusing to create a custom cake for a same sex wedding.

In Vox's agenda driven view there is no difference between a powerful Federal law enforcement agency abusing its power and a bake shop owner refusing to make a custom wedding cake but opening the rest of his business to LGBTQ customers. It's all about subjugating the evil Christian right.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/pol...ir-tanzin-rfra
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Old 11-29-2019, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: A heartbreaking Supreme Court case could be a huge win for the Christian right

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post


The far Left Vox raises alarms about a case the SCOTUS agreed to hear.


The core issue is the FBI'S potential abuse of authority particularly their decision to place Tanvir on the no fly list. But VOX cannot resist the opportunity for hysteria.


Since when did FBI, CIA or any other government agencies abusing Constitutional rights become a "far left" issue...…??

Real Americans, be those left or right should be outraged, if you don't exercise your rights, you can lose them.....

The no fly list is no joke and its near impossible to get off it....

That list will also make it difficult to purchase any gun legally to protect yourself/ family..... Another 2nd Amendment issue.....


Not all on the left fit the Vox mold....
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Old 11-29-2019, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: A heartbreaking Supreme Court case could be a huge win for the Christian right

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Since when did FBI, CIA or any other government agencies abusing Constitutional rights become a "far left" issue...…??

Real Americans, be those left or right should be outraged, if you don't exercise your rights, you can lose them.....

The no fly list is no joke and its near impossible to get off it....

That list will also make it difficult to purchase any gun legally to protect yourself/ family..... Another 2nd Amendment issue.....


Not all on the left fit the Vox mold....
Read the article. VOX could care less about the FBI abusing their authority, they are only interested in opposing the "Christian Right" exercising religious freedom.
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Old 11-29-2019, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: A heartbreaking Supreme Court case could be a huge win for the Christian right

Sorry to discuss the specifics of the case instead of a religious freedom angle, but this line from a NYT article is VERY disturbing...

Quote:
A trial judge had thrown out the claims, but the appeals court revived the case, ruling that the law allows individual federal officers to be sued for damages.
This is pure intimidation to prevent federal officers from doing their job...

You can tell this is by one observance...Nobody sues the McDonald's employee for damages...

They sue the whole darn company...

Here, they want the opposite...pure hypocrisy...
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Old 11-30-2019, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: A heartbreaking Supreme Court case could be a huge win for the Christian right

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Sorry to discuss the specifics of the case instead of a religious freedom angle, but this line from a NYT article is VERY disturbing...

This is pure intimidation to prevent federal officers from doing their job...

You can tell this is by one observance...Nobody sues the McDonald's employee for damages...

They sue the whole darn company...

Here, they want the opposite...pure hypocrisy...
Well as far as the McDonalds angle, there is no money in the employees....Going after the company is what lawyers do....

Now as far as federal officers in this case, when they break laws as individuals, I believe they should be able to be sued. The same goes for police officers imo....In fact, I think all law enforcement should be required to carry insurance policies to protect the people they work for when they as individuals break the law. Make them get a million dollar liability and require it to maintain a licence. That is the best way to weed out the bad ones from the majority of the good ones...Once they become uninsurable, they will have to find new careers....

The VOX article offered up several "what ifs" and went a long way to assume that this law will open Pandoras box for the religious right....

I'm not so sure about that...
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Old 12-02-2019, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: A heartbreaking Supreme Court case could be a huge win for the Christian right

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Well as far as the McDonalds angle, there is no money in the employees....Going after the company is what lawyers do....

Now as far as federal officers in this case, when they break laws as individuals, I believe they should be able to be sued. The same goes for police officers imo....In fact, I think all law enforcement should be required to carry insurance policies to protect the people they work for when they as individuals break the law. Make them get a million dollar liability and require it to maintain a licence. That is the best way to weed out the bad ones from the majority of the good ones...Once they become uninsurable, they will have to find new careers....

The VOX article offered up several "what ifs" and went a long way to assume that this law will open Pandoras box for the religious right....

I'm not so sure about that...
Federal law enforcement officials are subject to agency discipline as well as criminal prosecution. Making them pay for a million $ liability policy is a bad idea because it discourages them from doing their job. A wealthy drug lord can generate dozens of lawsuits claiming damages against the FBI agents investigating or who arrested him. Defending these lawsuits will drive their personal liability premiums through the roof.

When a law enforcement officer is sworn in the agency granting the authority assumes the liability for their actions. But officers can suffer adverse consequences even when they are not liable legally. Officer Wilson was forced to resign his job and relocate his family most likely never to work in law enforcement again for shooting Michael Brown in self defense. Officers are subject to punishment at the whim of public opinion, personal liability insurance creates a whole new avenue to punish them for doing their job.
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: A heartbreaking Supreme Court case could be a huge win for the Christian right

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a.) Federal law enforcement officials are subject to agency discipline as well as criminal prosecution.

b.) Making them pay for a million $ liability policy is a bad idea because it discourages them from doing their job.
a.) Ah, they police themselves and that is a complete joke...Internal Affairs is worthless toilet paper....Think about the Epstein alleged hanging or any Clinton investigation.....

b.) I disagree completely and body cams have proven how crooked and tyrannical some law enforcement officers really are in the daily world.....

"Doing their job"......

Unionized law enforcement is not much different than organized gang members protecting each other....The good cops never rat out the bad ones for fear of retaliation in their working environment….

These blue line cops are protecting themselves more than protecting the citizens....

An insurance policy covering the department from union thugs is not that expensive btw.....Check out the coverage rates, it's doable...
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Old 12-05-2019, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: A heartbreaking Supreme Court case could be a huge win for the Christian right

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Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
a.) Ah, they police themselves and that is a complete joke...Internal Affairs is worthless toilet paper....Think about the Epstein alleged hanging or any Clinton investigation.....

b.) I disagree completely and body cams have proven how crooked and tyrannical some law enforcement officers really are in the daily world.....

"Doing their job"......

Unionized law enforcement is not much different than organized gang members protecting each other....The good cops never rat out the bad ones for fear of retaliation in their working environment….

These blue line cops are protecting themselves more than protecting the citizens....

An insurance policy covering the department from union thugs is not that expensive btw.....Check out the coverage rates, it's doable...
Please do not engage in the incredibly dishonest tactic of editing other people's comments. Stripping out other people's comments to make a strawman for you to attack betrays the weaknesses of your claims.

Casually smearing police internal affairs as impotent is vapid rhetoric. IA investigates a full range of police abuse allegations and typically works in conjunction with civilian review boards.

I note the absence of any response to the fact the police are subject to criminal investigation and prosecution such as Officer Wilson in the case of Michael Brown. Oh wait, you edited that reference from the comment you "copied" into your response.

Local governments purchase group liability policies to mitigate risk of losses from tort litigation. There is quite a difference in premiums from the individual policies you suggest be made mandatory. Healthcare insurance premiums are a good proxy. Group policies like those offered by employers are considerably lower than individual rates. Please don't tell us you are not prepared to support your claim individual police officer liability insurance premiums are "doable".
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Old 01-02-2020, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: A heartbreaking Supreme Court case could be a huge win for the Christian right

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Originally Posted by Dave1 View Post
a.) Ah, they police themselves and that is a complete joke...Internal Affairs is worthless toilet paper....Think about the Epstein alleged hanging or any Clinton investigation.....

b.) I disagree completely and body cams have proven how crooked and tyrannical some law enforcement officers really are in the daily world.....

"Doing their job"......

Unionized law enforcement is not much different than organized gang members protecting each other....The good cops never rat out the bad ones for fear of retaliation in their working environment….

These blue line cops are protecting themselves more than protecting the citizens....

An insurance policy covering the department from union thugs is not that expensive btw.....Check out the coverage rates, it's doable...
DAMMIT! I have to mostly agree with Davey, shlt! I believe there are more trigger happy, headknocking cops then we would like to believe. We have had far too many cops killing people for no reason. I also believe they are disproportionally harassing blacks more than others. Although I understand the statistics.

As far as insurance, I don't think that's a bad idea. I believe cops are over paid, just like fireman. Back in the day, police and firemen made a livable wage, and great healthcare, and a good pensions. Today you can get wealthy.

My neighbor is a fireman, he brags about how little he works and how much overtime he gets. He paid 900k for his house next door to me. In two days (48hrs) of work, he gets what it takes most people 6 days to accomplish.
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