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Religion & Philosophy Discuss "Inspired" at the General Discussion; The author of II Timothy--who at least purports to be the apostle Paul (although some scholars believe that it was, ...

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Old 10-13-2019, 04:17 PM
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Default "Inspired"

The author of II Timothy--who at least purports to be the apostle Paul (although some scholars believe that it was, instead, a close associate of his)--declares, in 3:16, that all scripture is theopneustos--literally, "God-breathed."

There is probably no need, now, to get into the matter of just what "scripture" he was referring to. (Since there was then no canon of the "New Testament," he was, presumably, referring to the "Old Testament." But it could be applied equally to both.)

Some view this as a confirmation of the so-called "Dictation Theory" of inspiration: i.e. that God dictated the words, verbatim; and that the writers simply took them down, word-for-word, like good stenographers.

The problem with this, it seems to me, is that it begs the question: Why does God use one style when He is writing through Paul, and an entirely different style when He is writing through Peter? Or one style when He is using Mark, and an entirely different style when He is using John?

This is why I tend toward thought inspiration instead.

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Old 10-13-2019, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: "Inspired"

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
The author of II Timothy--who at least purports to be the apostle Paul (although some scholars believe that it was, instead, a close associate of his)--declares, in 3:16, that all scripture is theopneustos--literally, "God-breathed."

There is probably no need, now, to get into the matter of just what "scripture" he was referring to. (Since there was then no canon of the "New Testament," he was, presumably, referring to the "Old Testament." But it could be applied equally to both.)

Some view this as a confirmation of the so-called "Dictation Theory" of inspiration: i.e. that God dictated the words, verbatim; and that the writers simply took them down, word-for-word, like good stenographers.

The problem with this, it seems to me, is that it begs the question: Why does God use one style when He is writing through Paul, and an entirely different style when He is writing through Peter? Or one style when He is using Mark, and an entirely different style when He is using John?

This is why I tend toward thought inspiration instead.

Comments?
Well, Paul is Paul and Peter is Peter is Peter.

Is there evidence that God has to write through someone else?
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Old 10-14-2019, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: "Inspired"

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Well, Paul is Paul and Peter is Peter is Peter.

Is there evidence that God has to write through someone else?
I am not quite sure that I understand your point.

I was simply saying that Paul writes in Pauline style, whereas Peter writes in Petrine style.

This seems to undermine the "Dictation Theory"--i.e. that the New Testament writers simply acted as stenographers.

In fact, it would be rather difficult to find many theologians, since the latter part of the nineteenth century, who defend the "Dictation Theory."
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: "Inspired"

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
The author of II Timothy--who at least purports to be the apostle Paul (although some scholars believe that it was, instead, a close associate of his)--declares, in 3:16, that all scripture is theopneustos--literally, "God-breathed."

There is probably no need, now, to get into the matter of just what "scripture" he was referring to. (Since there was then no canon of the "New Testament," he was, presumably, referring to the "Old Testament." But it could be applied equally to both.)

Some view this as a confirmation of the so-called "Dictation Theory" of inspiration: i.e. that God dictated the words, verbatim; and that the writers simply took them down, word-for-word, like good stenographers.

The problem with this, it seems to me, is that it begs the question: Why does God use one style when He is writing through Paul, and an entirely different style when He is writing through Peter? Or one style when He is using Mark, and an entirely different style when He is using John?

This is why I tend toward thought inspiration instead.

Comments?
same reason we use a firefighter in one instance and a doctor in another.
what help is needed? how can I best convey my wishes to various peoples?
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: "Inspired"

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I am not quite sure that I understand your point.

I was simply saying that Paul writes in Pauline style, whereas Peter writes in Petrine style.

This seems to undermine the "Dictation Theory"--i.e. that the New Testament writers simply acted as stenographers.

In fact, it would be rather difficult to find many theologians, since the latter part of the nineteenth century, who defend the "Dictation Theory."
Why does God use one style when He is writing through Paul, and an entirely different style when He is writing through Peter? Or one style when He is using Mark, and an entirely different style when He is using John?

I don't understand this point. Followed by:

I was simply saying that Paul writes in Pauline style, whereas Peter writes in Petrine style.

Seems a conflict
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: "Inspired"

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
same reason we use a firefighter in one instance and a doctor in another.
what help is needed? how can I best convey my wishes to various peoples?
Again, I really do not understand.

What, exactly, are you suggesting?
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: "Inspired"

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Again, I really do not understand.

What, exactly, are you suggesting?
Why does God use one style when He is writing through Paul, and an entirely different style when He is writing through Peter? Or one style when He is using Mark, and an entirely different style when He is using John?

Paul was a Jew but also a Roman of high rank, and well traveled with different experiences and talents than Peter. Paul also knew how to persuade people of various ethnicity. Peter was a Jew and head of the new Christ based church at home and ministered to home-folk. They would quite naturally write differently. Their goal was to show people how to be saved.
As is true today different people responded to different prompts.
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Old 10-20-2019, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: "Inspired"

the dictation theory is just 1 view of full inspiration. and it's among the narrowest.
It seems like you're setting up a strawman to knock down here.

Seems to me though that God doesn't have to dictate to make his message clear or directly inspired. He can ride the waves of men's minds and words to have them write what he wants through them. With obviously far more power and control than any human film writer-director who uses different cinematographers, musicians and actors to create his films. But over time even with all the different actors faces and others doing the work you hear the words of the writer and see the vision of the director.

However, at times, it does seem like God did in fact "dictate".
When the prophets said "thus says the Lord" I'd take it as direct quotes. And the consequences and fulfillments seem to bear that out.
Also when Jesus is quoted, i'd take those as direct quotes and as the voice of God.
However the whole of scripture was written, directed, produced by God.... in other words completely controlled and inspired.
the names of the production crew are Paul, Peter, Moses, Elijah etc..
God is the Creator of all the players, the crew and the whole show.

To me the dictation theory seems to needlessly try to box God into limitations we'd put on humans.
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