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Religion & Philosophy Discuss Methodist church sign reads: 選 was a stranger and you at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by loboloco I have zero problem with churches carrying or preaching political messages. Just don't think they should ...

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Old 12-04-2018, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Methodist church sign reads: 選 was a stranger and you

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Originally Posted by loboloco View Post
I have zero problem with churches carrying or preaching political messages. Just don't think they should have a tax-exempt status if they do. Irregardless of the political agenda.
Unfortunately, the State has a bad habit of stepping on the Church lately. Tax exempt status or not, the members of the church have the first amendment protection. They can address the government with greavences just like you and me.

Who doesn't deserve tax exemption or should not be allowed to contribute to political candidates are organizations that receive tax payer funded grants...uh,; like,; uh; Planned Parenthood.
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Old 12-04-2018, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Methodist church sign reads: 選 was a stranger and you

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Unfortunately, the State has a bad habit of stepping on the Church lately. Tax exempt status or not, the members of the church have the first amendment protection. They can address the government with greavences just like you and me.

Who doesn't deserve tax exemption or should not be allowed to contribute to political candidates are organizations that receive tax payer funded grants...uh,; like,; uh; Planned Parenthood.
Franc, religious organizations pay no property or income taxes. This extends even to the parsonage' where the pastor lives rent and income tax free. Technically, that's not a grant, but it is some serious exemptions.

I agree with you, BTW, with PP, or any other organization furthering any agenda.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Methodist church sign reads: 選 was a stranger and you

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Franc, religious organizations pay no property or income taxes. This extends even to the parsonage' where the pastor lives rent and income tax free. Technically, that's not a grant, but it is some serious exemptions.

I agree with you, BTW, with PP, or any other organization furthering any agenda.
I know what churches don't pay. Been a congregation member since childhood. They are tax exempt. And despite the wealth of some, they are nonprofit assemblies of patrons who, in most cases, do pay taxes. Constitutionally speaking,,,; Freedom of assembly ought not be taxed or regulated.

Never said it was a grant. But PP gets funding from the Gubmit. A grant, a subsidy, service payments,,,; whatever. They should have no ability to contribute to political parties or candidates. Free speech, they got that. Profit, they got that is spades. So, let them advertise their services and compete for customers and revenue.
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Old 12-12-2018, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Methodist church sign reads: 選 was a stranger and you

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Since I opened this can of worms, I'll take a shot at explaining it. Note, I can only speak for myself, I do not presume to speak for others on this matter.

Morals, IMO, are not based on a threat from an entity that if you behave contrary to what THEY tell you is right, you will suffer. Instead, I function on the bases of 'would I want that done to me?"
well, please quote the threat in Deuteronomy 24:17-18
"Do not deprive the foreigner or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you from there. That is why I command you to do this."
the same in the other places I mentioned
Doesn't He appeal to the same thing as you? BECAUSE, what if it were you?.

seems to me God is appealing to what you're talking about.
I've asked a lot of questions here and have (and rarely get strait answers)
But ill try this one. isn't it True that SOME people... maybe MOST people... FORGET to think of other like themselves?
I know i have Maybe you NEVER forget to do so. And sometime My wife or My Daughter has to reminder to treat others better. Sometimes I have to remind them or other friends and family and on outward into the comnunity. It's not a "THREAT" but a wake-up call to do whats you ALREADY know is right.

Already know it.
WHY do we already know it?
Because God put it in us. period.
If you have another reason why that moral check it's there inside us all please tell me.
jimbo didn't. just tut tutted what i said. and claimed he didn't NEED to know.




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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
...If what I did leading up to the specific event warranted it, then I am responsible for the outcome.
OK, just so I'm clear on this, you DO think that sometimes you actions might be the cause of other people JUSTLY treating you harshly. And you'd have an expectation of it in some cases.
So is it wrong to mention that we might want to have a similar expectation of God's reactions to our actions if they "warranted it"?


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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
In this specific instance, they fled what they felt was poverty and violence. OK, I can understand wanting a better life than that. But there are rules to what the ultimate goal is, and they broke any number of them, and then feel they can use violence (what they are supposedly fleeing) to attempt to gain something that they have no right to demand. They attempted to use violence, and just as if I had done the same, I would have expected the response that they received.
So breaking someone's rules means that there should be an expected response from the people or entities (or entity) that have rightful authority.
OK i'd agree with that.

A response commensurate with the crime and perps.
Generally we don't punish a child the same way you do an adult. for several reasons.
how would you want your child treated? even if they've done wrong.
This is what GOD ask as well?
and here's the thing God is generally more merciful than we are. doing what he says will probably be a kinder response than our own. His appeal is to our better natures. the nature that He put there.
the sad thing is we NEED reminders to bring it up. Because of the OTHER side of nature that's not so cool.

people want to talk about being motivated by threats from God but that's not what his primary appeal is too.

The 1st 2 commands are Love God and Love others. Jesus said this is that WHOLE of the law.
and simply rephrases it in different ways ,
"Do unto other as you would have them do unto you." and in different historical accounts from Genesis to Revelations.
But like a lot of things it's simple, but somehow even with our inner moral compasses pointing the right way, it's not easy.

And when we fail, as we all do, Jesus has already paid the price for that. So there IS no more threat of judgment. It's canceled. Just a persistent call to love.

...“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life...
Jesus,
John 5:24
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Old Yesterday, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: Methodist church sign reads: 選 was a stranger and you

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
well, please quote the threat in Deuteronomy 24:17-18
"Do not deprive the foreigner or the fatherless of justice, or take the cloak of the widow as a pledge. Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you from there. That is why I command you to do this."
the same in the other places I mentioned
Doesn't He appeal to the same thing as you? BECAUSE, what if it were you?.

seems to me God is appealing to what you're talking about.
I've asked a lot of questions here and have (and rarely get strait answers)
But ill try this one. isn't it True that SOME people... maybe MOST people... FORGET to think of other like themselves?
I know i have Maybe you NEVER forget to do so. And sometime My wife or My Daughter has to reminder to treat others better. Sometimes I have to remind them or other friends and family and on outward into the comnunity. It's not a "THREAT" but a wake-up call to do whats you ALREADY know is right.

Already know it.
WHY do we already know it?
Because God put it in us. period.
If you have another reason why that moral check it's there inside us all please tell me.
jimbo didn't. just tut tutted what i said. and claimed he didn't NEED to know.

OK, just so I'm clear on this, you DO think that sometimes you actions might be the cause of other people JUSTLY treating you harshly. And you'd have an expectation of it in some cases.
So is it wrong to mention that we might want to have a similar expectation of God's reactions to our actions if they "warranted it"?

So breaking someone's rules means that there should be an expected response from the people or entities (or entity) that have rightful authority.
OK i'd agree with that.

A response commensurate with the crime and perps.
Generally we don't punish a child the same way you do an adult. for several reasons.
how would you want your child treated? even if they've done wrong.
This is what GOD ask as well?
and here's the thing God is generally more merciful than we are. doing what he says will probably be a kinder response than our own. His appeal is to our better natures. the nature that He put there.
the sad thing is we NEED reminders to bring it up. Because of the OTHER side of nature that's not so cool.

people want to talk about being motivated by threats from God but that's not what his primary appeal is too.

The 1st 2 commands are Love God and Love others. Jesus said this is that WHOLE of the law.
and simply rephrases it in different ways ,
"Do unto other as you would have them do unto you." and in different historical accounts from Genesis to Revelations.
But like a lot of things it's simple, but somehow even with our inner moral compasses pointing the right way, it's not easy.

And when we fail, as we all do, Jesus has already paid the price for that. So there IS no more threat of judgment. It's canceled. Just a persistent call to love.

...天ery truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life...
Jesus,
John 5:24
You are inserting God, where I do not. You are free to believe that God controls our every action and/or thought. I do not. You believe I concern myself with what other people think. I do not. You think I concern myself with what some supposed authority says I should or should not do. I do not.

I do not seek other people's approval, and I do not use the measuring stick of other people's 'punishment' or disapproval for my actions. There is a separation of following certain protocols to achieve the end result you want, just as I have my space and want people to respect it, I do the same for others.

If I were one of these people that have claimed a 'right' to enter the US (along with their demand to receive $50,000 to go away ) I would not be worrying about the tear gas, or the use of force. I would be finding the right way to gain access.

Let me put this very simply. You don't touch a hot stove burner, because you know it hurts. God didn't tell you that, you experienced it for yourself.
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Old Yesterday, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Methodist church sign reads: 選 was a stranger and you

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
You are inserting God, where I do not. You are free to believe that God controls our every action and/or thought. I do not. You believe I concern myself with what other people think. I do not. You think I concern myself with what some supposed authority says I should or should not do. I do not.

I do not seek other people's approval, and I do not use the measuring stick of other people's 'punishment' or disapproval for my actions. There is a separation of following certain protocols to achieve the end result you want, just as I have my space and want people to respect it, I do the same for others.

If I were one of these people that have claimed a 'right' to enter the US (along with their demand to receive $50,000 to go away ) I would not be worrying about the tear gas, or the use of force. I would be finding the right way to gain access.

Let me put this very simply. You don't touch a hot stove burner, because you know it hurts. God didn't tell you that, you experienced it for yourself.
I think the overall assumption here is the Right claims a moral majority. In the past due to the fact Christianity and church going were the norm, the status quo which the conservative sought not to mess with if it was working.
Then later a big christian contingent was embraced by the GOP.
So the sign is reflecting the hypocrisy of yes trying to project personal morality on one case while ignoring another case that is also commented on in Christian literature.
did I totally confuse?
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Old Yesterday, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: Methodist church sign reads: 選 was a stranger and you

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
You are inserting God, where I do not. You are free to believe that God controls our every action and/or thought.
I'm not sure why people mis-read what i've written. .
I mean look, If God controlled every thought and action there would be NO NEED for him to appeal to our moral natures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I do not.
If you don't want to answer to God or believe that he exist. that's your option. Doesn't make it true, but it's an option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
You believe I concern myself with what other people think. I do not. You think I concern myself with what some supposed authority says I should or should not do. I do not.
I do not seek other people's approval, and I do not use the measuring stick of other people's 'punishment' or disapproval for my actions. There is a separation of following certain protocols to achieve the end result you want, just as I have my space and want people to respect it, I do the same for others.
If I were one of these people that have claimed a 'right' to enter the US (along with their demand to receive $50,000 to go away ) I would not be worrying about the tear gas, or the use of force. I would be finding the right way to gain access.
Let me put this very simply. You don't touch a hot stove burner, because you know it hurts. God didn't tell you that, you experienced it for yourself.
So it's what i said to Jimbo, you MAKE UP your own morals, and also base your action on PRAGMATIC factors.
the stove is Hot therefore I will not touch it.
People don't want me in their country and I will get a negative reaction ...burned... if i do xyz . therefore PRAGMATICALLY speaking I will try the "RIGHT" way. the way OTHER PEOPLE , other AUTHORITIES have said it's OK to try.

Before you said you went by your own rule of "do unto others". which you now basically say is MADE UP(or just there ...somehow) and has NO basis on what OTHERS OUTSIDE yourself , Human or God has to say.
And you add to it a pragmatism based on avoiding personal harm,
However while doing that you've also conceded that you WOULD try and follow others standards to get into a country.
So basically a might makes right pragmatism.

Ignoring God leaves every "moral" option open. If you make up your standard then someone entering the country can make up their's. A little tear Gas may be PRAGMATICALLY well worth the price of entrance. If they feel their life is MORE threatened elsewhere a few Rocks at the heads of some cops on a wall might be RIGHT in their eyes. If they just get in. whether or not you or I or God approve of their forced entry is beside the point.

when you claim your own moral standard, ("I have my space and want people to respect it, I do the same for others.") others have the ability to do the same. To condemning others actions as morally wrong is meaningless. If it's ONLY about "MY" personal standards.
Not God's, not the Laws, Not "other people's". your expectations of what other people SHOULD do and frustration with them is simply a personal notion. why should ANYONE care about that, especially since you say don't care about what others think or expect?
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For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
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