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Religion & Philosophy Discuss Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump at the General Discussion; Sometimes I hear mutterings from liberals, wondering just how "evangelicals" could support Donald Trump, given his (posited) infidelities. For one ...

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Old 03-30-2018, 04:02 PM
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Default Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump

Sometimes I hear mutterings from liberals, wondering just how "evangelicals" could support Donald Trump, given his (posited) infidelities.

For one thing, these people are confusing "evangelicals" with fundamentalists: The former wish to spread the Gospel, whereas the latter believe deeply in certain "fundamental" doctrines (including--but not limited to--the bodily ascension of Christ, into heaven).

Of course, there is a lot of overlap here: Many evangelicals are also fundamentalists, and vice-versa. But the two terms are not interchangeable.

Perhaps more importantly, neither group is voting--in November of those years evenly divisible by four--for a minister-in-chief, bit for a commander-in-chief.

Do some people actually believe that those occupying these two groups are totally oblivious to the world in which we live, and the attendant ramifications of electing the wrong person as our president?
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Old 03-31-2018, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump

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Sometimes I hear mutterings from liberals, wondering just how "evangelicals" could support Donald Trump, given his (posited) infidelities.
First, always count on a Liberal media to judge...

What Liberals don't understand that, irrelevant of a person's personal issues, that person would still go to bat for them when t comes to policy...

Perfect case in point...

Would Trump appoint judges that believe a cake-maker can stand on their religious beliefs and not participate in a gay wedding?...Yup...

Would Hillary?...F no, and you know what the "F" stands for...

Trump's administration sides with Christian baker who refused to make a gay couple's wedding cake because he said it went against his religious beliefs

When Liberals ask Evangelicals or other religious groups "How can you vote for a cheater like Trump?", they're REALLY saying "You shouldn't vote for Trump even though the alternative will attack you, religiously, from the bench."...mad


You never see this from the other side...In fact, Anthony Weiner was leading the race for mayor of New York until he got caught sexting and handing out partially nude photos of himself.....AGAIN!!!!!!!...

That means they forgave his indiscretions the first time...Trump is not aloud that special privilege reserved for (D)s...
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Old 04-02-2018, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump

And the hypocrisy of the right wing is admitted. These people would elect the devil if they thought it would advance their political causes.

It's not the Democrats that run on family values, or religious moralism, or the sanctity of marriage, while having no problem whatsoever supporting people that are contrary to everything you claim to represent.

So when we point out your hypocrisy and lies it's only because you guys made it an issue in the first place.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:59 AM
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Default Re: Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
And the hypocrisy of the right wing is admitted. These people would elect the devil if they thought it would advance their political causes.

It's not the Democrats that run on family values, or religious moralism, or the sanctity of marriage, while having no problem whatsoever supporting people that are contrary to everything you claim to represent.

So when we point out your hypocrisy and lies it's only because you guys made it an issue in the first place.
According to most liberals, the agenda driven political cause advancer devil actually won except those nasty Republicans decided to play by the same rules we've used for 200 years.

The she devil lost.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:11 AM
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Default Re: Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
And the hypocrisy of the right wing is admitted. These people would elect the devil if they thought it would advance their political causes.

It's not the Democrats that run on family values, or religious moralism, or the sanctity of marriage, while having no problem whatsoever supporting people that are contrary to everything you claim to represent.

So when we point out your hypocrisy and lies it's only because you guys made it an issue in the first place.
You cast many stones for a mere human. Evangelicals accept that we are all sinners.

It's not hypocrisy to have fractured men, or women, as effective leaders. Even God chose sinners like David, who had broken at least half of God's commandments, Ruth who wasn't a believer, or Paul who had relentlessly persecuted Christians, to do His work.

Hypocrisy is using children as props for promotion of every liberal agenda but abortion on demand.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump

the hypocrisy is real.
There are no perfect candidates (or voters) but some candidates are LESS unrepentantly morally offensive.
Seems to me that far to many Christians and "moral" atheist would elect the Devil if he said the most things that agreed with their political vision and/or agree with stomping the "other side" ...and "pragmatically" seemed the most "electable".
There were many other candidates on the Republican side that had far less moral compromise/corruption in thier resume than Trump, and stood for many of the same issues. But far to many "evangelicals", "fundamentalist", "family values republicans" and their leadership leaned Trump. However there were and are many exceptions. And in fact many did simply stay home rather than than vote for "the lesser of 2 evils".
But the Support of Roy Moore was just crazy over the top IMO. however it seems some Christians did in fact stay home, or voted D for that one as well.

And there's also a factor that's overlooked, that there are many minorities that consider themselves "evangelical" and/or "fundamentalist" and they often vote democrat out of habit and for other reasons. some of which they consider moral as well. But just as often is more based on political views rather than Biblical.

IMO bottom line we human beings are kind of a mess. God help us all.
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Old 04-03-2018, 09:54 AM
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Default Re: Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump

Roy Moore Was ‘a Bridge Too Far’ for Alabama Evangelicals
Roy Moore Was ?a Bridge Too Far? for Alabama Evangelicals | News & Reporting | Christianity Today
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump

I think what some people may be overlooking is that there is a vast difference between immorality and amorality.

Donald Trump, at times, has appeared to act in an immoral fashion.

But Hillary Clinton (as well as her spouse) appears to be entirely amoral.

And there is an enormous difference.

Moreover, there are often competing values at hand; and I am unaware of any fundamentalist--or evangelical--who has declared that he (or she) would cast his (or her) vote on the very narrow issue of personal morality alone. (Perhaps someone, somewhere, has said as much. But that would be a very rare creature, indeed, I believe.)

So it is really not wise to impute to fundamentalists (and evangelicals) the belief that they should vote only within these very narrow lines.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I think what some people may be overlooking is that there is a vast difference between immorality and amorality.
Donald Trump, at times, has appeared to act in an immoral fashion.
But Hillary Clinton (as well as her spouse) appears to be entirely amoral.
And there is an enormous difference.
I'm not so sure about the difference.
do you mean some people don't believe what they do is wrong
and some people believe it's wrong but do it anyway?

Either way most still realize where the Cultural norms for morality are.
And Where the Biblical norms for morality are. And politicians try to play to or around them.
so I'm not sure what distinction you're trying to make here.

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Moreover, there are often competing values at hand; and I am unaware of any fundamentalist--or evangelical--who has declared that he (or she) would cast his (or her) vote on the very narrow issue of personal morality alone. (Perhaps someone, somewhere, has said as much. But that would be a very rare creature, indeed, I believe.)
I guess they are rare but there are folks that do vote based on PRIMARILY one "moral" issue, I think that goes for some on the left as well.
issues like Abortion, War, "women's rights" "homosexual rights"
But I think they are becoming more rare than they used to be and they are often berated by the "pragmatic" minded party faithful that'd prefer any candidate that'd beat the "other-side" than one that has any serious commitment to ANY specific policy issues, much less morally based ones.

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So it is really not wise to impute to fundamentalists (and evangelicals) the belief that they should vote only within these very narrow lines.
Seems to me that Christians in general should have standards that are Biblically based in some fashion. If God is our King, Our Lord and master it is IN FACT hypocritical to act like our votes should not be MOST influenced by our beliefs.
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Old 04-03-2018, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: Evangelicals and fundamentalists--and Donald Trump

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I'm not so sure about the difference.
do you mean some people don't believe what they do is wrong
and some people believe it's wrong but do it anyway?
Close.

I would say that some people do not have any moral compass whatsoever--they are purely Machiavellian--whereas others can discern right from wrong, and sometimes fall short of their beliefs.

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I guess they are rare but there are folks that do vote based on PRIMARILY one "moral" issue, I think that goes for some on the left as well.
I suppose it depends upon just what you would define as "moral."

I am totally opposed to abortion-on-demand. (If abortion is used to save the life of the mother, that is another matter; and I can see the case for the other so-called "hard cases"--i.e. rape and incest--although the unborn child is not to blame here. So this is a close call, I think.)

But my views on abortion are not based upon biblical teaching; rather, they are based upon purely secular considerations.

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Seems to me that Christians in general should have standards that are Biblically based in some fashion. If God is our King, Our Lord and master it is IN FACT hypocritical to act like our votes should not be MOST influenced by our beliefs.
Well, I am a Christian.

But I would eagerly vote for an avowed atheist or agnostic, if that person more nearly reflected my political-philosophy views than the opposing candidate--whatever his (or her) religious views might be...
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