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Religion & Philosophy Discuss The church and doctrine at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by pjohns I find it rather troubling that some churches wish to manufacture doctrine. It is not that ...

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Old 12-21-2017, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: The church and doctrine

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I find it rather troubling that some churches wish to manufacture doctrine. It is not that doctrine is unimportant--far from it--but it is simply not within the church's purview to set this forth.

Rather, it is the obligation of each individual believer to come to a proper understanding of biblical doctrine, according to the teachings of Scripture. The church (any church) is simply not the proper source for "True Doctrine" (to be blindly accepted by all parishioners).
I think the doctrine is used to make people see that they have a holy spirit within themselves. It serves to strengthen and nurture that spirit.

The fact that people go to church to pray with others seems to me to be like people that go to AA meetings, it is sort of like a support group of like minded people.

I don't go to church, but I believe that the Holy Spirit guides me. That spirit also guides homeless dogs to me I believe. I am constantly picking up dogs from the street that have been abused or abandoned. People wonder how I am always coming across these dogs ( 2 just yesterday ) My friend said he thinks God guides them to me when they are in their bleakest moment.

I cannot describe it any other way.
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: The church and doctrine

1st of all i have to ask, has your pastor ...or even the fundamental church you used to go... kicked you out becasue you didn't believe every detail of doctrine the same way the Churches outline them?

err, I could be wrong but suspect the answer is no.

How far a church goes to demand members believe certain issues is up to them. But at some point it could be come cult like. However most churches just allow Folks to stay or leave as they will if they don't agree with church doctrines. But they don't change the official doctrines to suit everyone. most churches have taken quite some time to settle on the views they have. I'm not sure why you think the leaders of the churches shouldn't put forth ANY doctrinal idea.

what do you based that idea on? is that YOUR doctrine of how a church should be run? see the problem here?

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Here are some examples that leap to mind:

Which method of interpretation of the Book of Revelation (i.e. The Apocalypse in Catholic churches) is probably correct--and why? (Note: There is almost an infinite number of individual interpretations of the book; but only four methods of interpretation. They are as follows: (1) the poetic method, which is often embraced by liberal scholars; this method holds that there are no actual events being described in the book, but merely the certain victory of the Forces of God over the Forces of Satan; (2) the preterist method, which is sometimes embraced by a subset of conservative scholars; this method holds that the entirety of the book--yes, including even the much-ballyhooed "Battle of Armageddon"--was fulfilled by the time of the destruction of Jerusalem, by the armies of Titus, in AD 70; (3) the continuous historical method, which was embraced by most of the Reformers; this method holds that the book details the journey of the church from the first century until the Eschaton (or End Times); and (4) the futurist method, which is embraced by most televangelists; this method holds that the entire book (with the exception, early on, as concerning the Seven Churches of Asia) revolves around the Eschaton.
Revelation is amazing, each church and member has an option to adhere to what they understand is true.
some ideas are less likely to be true than others. It's one book that if anyone studies it they will likely have more than one view over time.

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May a woman teach over men? Some New Testament verses appear to say no (e.g. I Timothy 2:12). Or was this an accommodation toward the customs of that time and place, only--plus the fact that the women of Ephesus were quite uneducated?
would it be wrong to ere on the side of the idea that it may be universal for all time.
and since there's no positive example or command for women pastors anywhere in the early church. isn't it reasonable to assume the rule is what it appears in the text?

Other verses say clearly older women should teach younger woman and children.. is that such a hardship that we have to question what seems fairly clear?

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Was Phoebe a deaconess? In Romans 16:1, Phoebe is described as a diakonon of the church at Rome. This may either be transliterated, "deaconess"; or translated, "servant" (in a generic sense). Appeals to grammar will not solve this conundrum. It is purely a matter of theology--not grammar.
what OTHER references to we have of female deacons or servants. At best we can say that it's rare.
again would it be a hardship for Christians for that to remain the standard?

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May baptism include pouring and/or sprinkling? The problem here is twofold: (1) Paul referred to baptism as "a burial with Christ"; and (2) the verb, baptizo--which is transliterated as "baptize"--means to immerse, according to all the Greek-English lexicons that I have seen.
is this really that important,
frankly none of the things you've mentioned here will send anyone to hell or heaven if folks disagree on them.
they aren't really central doctrines.
they are 2nd or even 3rd tier by my estimation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
These are just a few of the doctrinal questions to which I refer.

But I think that it would be much better for each person to come to a conclusion individually, as regarding these (and other) matters...
people will come to there own conclusions no matter what. But here's something else. i believe a PEW POLL asked a boat load of Christians, all over 45 years old, if they had ever read the bible from front to back in their life. less than 15% answered yes.
so if the Church doesn't adhere to and TELL them about certain doctrines some of them wouldn't even know.

Of Course it's better if people study for themselves about the various doctrines and honestly came to theire own views. but sadly many won't even pick up the Bible , or read commentaries or articles at all.


But i find that sometime even when the Bible is crystal CLEAR on some issues some people would rather hold to their own views than submit themselves to clear teaching of the text. And say that GOD agrees with them no matter what the Bible says.
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