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Religion & Philosophy Discuss The Problem of Evil at the General Discussion; In both Christianity and philosophy, there is some thing known as "The Problem of Evil." It goes something like this: ...

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Old 09-24-2017, 10:42 PM
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Default The Problem of Evil

In both Christianity and philosophy, there is some thing known as "The Problem of Evil."

It goes something like this:

If God exists, then misery exists either (1) because God is incapable of stopping it--therefore, He is not worthy of worship; or (2) God is indifferent to it--therefore (again) He is not worthy of worship.

It is an interesting conundrum.

Thoughts?
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Old 09-25-2017, 12:37 AM
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Default Re: The Problem of Evil

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If God exists, then misery exists either (1) because God is incapable of stopping it--therefore, He is not worthy of worship; or (2) God is indifferent to it--therefore (again) He is not worthy of worship.
The answer is neither...

Two points...

1) No mention of free will...Much misery is determined by one's own decisions...

2) Much misery is determined by OTHERS' free will...

Other factors, of course, but the "conundrum" is misleading...
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Old 09-25-2017, 08:19 AM
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Default Re: The Problem of Evil

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
The answer is neither...

Two points...

1) No mention of free will...Much misery is determined by one's own decisions...

2) Much misery is determined by OTHERS' free will...

Other factors, of course, but the "conundrum" is misleading...
1. While part of one's 'misery' is the result of one's decisions (see my signature), it quite often is reinforced by external influences that desire that very outcome.

2. Yes, we have all been collateral damage from other people's bad decisions, but as with item 1, it's what you do with the results... don't know if you recall one of my other signatures: Building block or stumbling block, choose.
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Old 07-14-2019, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: The Problem of Evil

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
In both Christianity and philosophy, there is some thing known as "The Problem of Evil."

It goes something like this:

If God exists, then misery exists either (1) because God is incapable of stopping it--therefore, He is not worthy of worship; or (2) God is indifferent to it--therefore (again) He is not worthy of worship.

It is an interesting conundrum.

Thoughts?
"If God exists, then misery exists either
(1) because God is incapable of stopping it -- therefore, He is not worthy of worship;
or
(2) God is indifferent to it -- therefore (again) He is not worthy of worship.

lets start with the last part. i'm not sure "He's not worthy of worship" follows even if points 1 or 2 were true.. or the only options.
People worship Sports stars, singers, actors, political figures, cult leaders, and various pagan "gods" that have far less than full control over the universe. Without any problem.

But to the 2 main assumptions,
"because God is incapable of stopping it or God is indifferent to it"
the thing is there is a 3rd option.
God allows it for a greater purpose.
He COULD stop it, and He DOES Care, but there's more on the table than we see. And the final positive resolution clears the board.

the question is do we trust Him, and the proof of his love by primarily decent opportunity to access food water and shelter,
and the gift of his Son for the forgiveness of our sins and a place at his side in a world without "evil" and misery.
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Old 07-14-2019, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: The Problem of Evil

Before I became a Christian this question was something i wonder about some,
but I've always thought that the biggest problems in the world weren't caused by an "indifferent" or "impotent" God but by to many crummy people.
People treating others negligently or like crap outright.
I never really could really join in with the upset morally righteous Atheist fist waving and blaming at God for all the "suffering". It always seemed to me that we should be waving fist at each other on that front.
God didn't start BS war, or tell pedophiles and pimps to abuse and sell little kids. Didn't tell men to break their wive's jaws. Or one group to put another in concentration camps. On down to little things like folks who never check on their elder family members . That's all just people acting poorly.
My question was where does that come from, IF there a God or if there's not.

the Answer that comes back "if there's not a God" is
that we are just random evolved animals, and kindness and such are minor and unexplained evolutionary by-products that are superseded by the more primary and driving force of survival. So don't expect much (anything) by way of morals and kindness.
the Answer that come back "if there' is a God" is
Man was created to love and be loved, and be the caretaker of a perfect Earth, under God's ultimate loving authority. But man wanted more than that role and in rebellion change a bit of his nature. So God, began a long term plan to bring man back. He downgrade the Earth and allowed men to somewhat run free in their rebellion while always prodding us and calling us back to our higher calling our higher selves... and to Him.

the question is which , If either, is true not which one makes us fell better or worse.
I'm convinced of the latter myself.

And I've read enough science to be convinced that evolution really is BS.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:02 AM
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Default Re: The Problem of Evil

As for the question of Evil, it can be thought of as an absence of God in one's life.

When we measure the cold, what are we measuring? We don't measure cold, we measure heat. Cold is simply a term we use to describe the absence of heat. Absolute zero is just a term to describe no heat existing.

What is darkness? We don't measure darkness, just the absence of light. We can measure light.

The same can be said if evil. Evil only exists in the absence of God in someone's life. If men choose to reject God and his love, they are more prone to be evil and commit evil acts. When men love God, there is no room for evil.
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Old 07-15-2019, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: The Problem of Evil

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
In both Christianity and philosophy, there is some thing known as "The Problem of Evil."

It goes something like this:

If God exists, then misery exists either (1) because God is incapable of stopping it--therefore, He is not worthy of worship; or (2) God is indifferent to it--therefore (again) He is not worthy of worship.

It is an interesting conundrum.

Thoughts?
The lives of Adam and Eve were quite boring. Is it no wonder the devil was able to seduce them?

Why do non believers continually insist that a true just and benevolent God would give us world without pain, suffering and,,,; evil?
Are we just lab rats? Pets?


No, we are humans of free will who must earn the right to God's grace
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Old 07-15-2019, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: The Problem of Evil

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The lives of Adam and Eve were quite boring. Is it no wonder the devil was able to seduce them?

Why do non believers continually insist that a true just and benevolent God would give us world without pain, suffering and,,,; evil?
Are we just lab rats? Pets?

No, we are humans of free will who must earn the right to God's grace
"earn the right to God's grace"
mmm, well
the whole point of Grace is that it's UN-earned.
As Paul put it
"God’s grace has saved you because of your faith in Christ. Your salvation doesn’t come from anything you do. It is God’s gift."
Ephesian 2:8
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Romans 11:6

but maybe you didn't mean it like that.


Eden boring.... I'll be so glad when i'm bored like that.
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For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: The Problem of Evil

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
"earn the right to God's grace"
mmm, well
the whole point of Grace is that it's UN-earned.
As Paul put it
"God’s grace has saved you because of your faith in Christ. Your salvation doesn’t come from anything you do. It is God’s gift."
Ephesian 2:8
"But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."
Romans 11:6

but maybe you didn't mean it like that.


Eden boring.... I'll be so glad when i'm bored like that.
Who said anything about "works?"

One only earns God's grace when innocent or when they believe. Re-read Paul's message.

Life without challenge is boring. A few weeks of Eden and you would be looking for trouble. You are, after all, only human. Once born your innocence is lost. Being cast out of Eden was in God's plan. Or did you forget God knows all.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: The Problem of Evil

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
As for the question of Evil, it can be thought of as an absence of God in one's life.

When we measure the cold, what are we measuring? We don't measure cold, we measure heat. Cold is simply a term we use to describe the absence of heat. Absolute zero is just a term to describe no heat existing.

What is darkness? We don't measure darkness, just the absence of light. We can measure light.

The same can be said if evil. Evil only exists in the absence of God in someone's life. If men choose to reject God and his love, they are more prone to be evil and commit evil acts. When men love God, there is no room for evil.
Sorry, I don't buy that at all. There is no correlation between evil and belief in a deity.
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