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Religion & Philosophy Discuss More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials at the General Discussion; Note: AZRWinger continues to provide absolutely no evidence for his claim that I have made strawman arguments out of editing ...

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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2017, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

Note: AZRWinger continues to provide absolutely no evidence for his claim that I have made strawman arguments out of editing his posts...
And he refuses to even pretend he has any evidence...
But that doesn't stop him from claiming it happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
See the bold question in the first of your comments. Once again you conveniently forget what you wrote earlier. This happens so often and is used to avoid discussion that it cannot be anything but dishonesty. Certainly you did not have to "sacrifice" honesty to vote for Hillary.
Again you admit to editing other people's comments but claim that it is OK for you to do it because we ought to trust you not to create straw men. In the past you have claimed you did this because you weren't going to respond to parts of my comments that you judged "irrelevant" or "false" subjective, dishonest judgements on your part.
Now you attempt to sanitize your dishonest practice with the excuse that you are just trying to show the specific parts of my comments you are responding to.
It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to recognize they are BOTH accurate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Yet as shown above you consistently chop up comment text to insert your drivel. It takes brazen moral bankruptcy to make this dishonest a claim to hide your editing other people's comments. I am not going to descend into your morality free nether region where the dishonesty of editing other people's comments has to be illustrated with examples to be fought over before the next comment is chopped up into another straw man.
ROFLMAO!
You have absolutely nothing topical to say at this stage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
I note that you are seemingly incapable of recognizing the moral wrong of editing other people's comments in your replies. Instead, you demand I show you where your editing has done harm as if there are instances where it is moral to substitute your subjective judgement for comment text as if the practice is acceptable if you do it.
One: You still can't quote me where my method of quoting misrepresented you.
Ergo, proving your claim a lie.

Two: I am amused at how many other people respond to me without throwing a hissy fit over posting flow.
But you have become consumed by it. To the extent you can't talk about anything but that.
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Last edited by foundit66; 10-09-2017 at 10:44 PM..
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2017, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
So take "Sophie's choice" as an example:
"Sophie's Choice" is centered on a scene in Auschwitz where Sophie has just arrived with her ten-year old son and her seven-year old daughter and a sadistic doctor, presumably Doctor Mengele, tells her that she can only bring one of her children; one will be allowed to live while the other is to be killed.
So what you are saying is that if Sophie chooses, that makes her evil / immoral / whatever negative adjective you want to insert here?



That's your opinion.



But it's a real representation of reality.

No matter who you voted for, you were only ever going to get Hillary or Trump.
That's a fact.

So regardless of which c -> z option you chose, the result was always only ever going to be either a) or b).
That is why my analogy is more appropriate to the actual situation as opposed to you trying to reinvent reality.




But in the end, it only comes down to you getting one or the other.
Your futile gesture may have felt good. And I imagine you have some inflated sense of superiority because you went that route.
But you've got the same crap smeared bread as the rest of us...
Again, you use an analogy that doesn't apply.
Sophie really did only have two choices in that situation. You had more than two choices. You are using piss-poor analogies to justify your action.

I do have the same crap smeared bread as you and everybody else.
I'm comfortable with my decision and I don't feel the need to justify my decision by creating cruddy analogies.

Edit to add:
Turn off your imagination about me.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2017, 09:37 PM
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Post Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

First off, you shifted the goals on my analogy.
I was making the point of the analogy YOUR JUDGMENT on people choosing between two options where both options are bad.
Instead of acknowledging that, you shift your approach ...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat View Post
Again, you use an analogy that doesn't apply.
Sophie really did only have two choices in that situation. You had more than two choices. You are using piss-poor analogies to justify your action.
No. She had more than two options.
She could have chosen not to choose.
She could have chosen to try to run.
Are you saying she couldn't have chosen those options?

She could have chosen a variety of ineffectual options which would have changed nothing to the actual outcome.
And that is the fact that you refuse to acknowledge. THE ACTUAL OUTCOME was always going to be one of two choices.
a) Trump, OR
b) Clinton.

Just like you had many options, but only two outcomes regardless of what option you chose.
THAT is what you are refusing to acknowledge.
THAT is why the analogy is relevant.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat View Post
I do have the same crap smeared bread as you and everybody else.
I'm comfortable with my decision and I don't feel the need to justify my decision by creating cruddy analogies.
ROFLMAO!
You are sorely mistaken if you think me telling you this analogy is about me "justifying" my decision to you.

If anything, you should practice some self-introspection to try to figure out why you care so much for trying to care about your condemnation of my choice.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2017, 06:53 AM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Read what I wrote...
I'm bold-facing the part you may have glossed over...


For a parallel, consider somebody tells you that they are either going to:
a) punch you in the face and the chest, or
b) punch you in the kidney and kick you in the groin.

Both are assault. Both are "evil".
No matter what you choose, one of them is going to happen.

Would you tell the person that you choose option c of no assault occurs even recognizing that you do have a preference and c is not going to be chosen?

So yeah. You have the option of saying "I choose c) Neither" I'm acknowledging that option exists.
But the reality is that you're going to get either a) or b).
You can accept the fact that you may be ending up with a) or b), but you wouldn't have to violate your personal morality by actually voting for one of the other.

And, if enough people chose c) or d) other, perhaps option d) would gain more strength so there wouldn't only be a) or b).
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2017, 10:56 AM
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Post Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
You can accept the fact that you may be ending up with a) or b), but you wouldn't have to violate your personal morality by actually voting for one of the other.
Yet again, I ask the simple question.
What personal morality did I violate by voting for Clinton?


Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
And, if enough people chose c) or d) other, perhaps option d) would gain more strength so there wouldn't only be a) or b).
And if wishes were horses then beggars would ride.


Quite frankly, when some people spend too much time refusing to admit Trump can do any wrong, it exacerbates the problem.
One thing I find hilarious about this thread is how much time you and some others are trying to spend telling me a vote for Hillary is wrong.
Simple question for you: Are you putting in the same effort regarding Trump?

Or, in truth, is this all a one-sided effort and you don't even appreciate how you are enabling the problem?



More to the general concept, this whole "well, if enough of us ..." is a pipe dream.
The below youtube video helps explain it.
People talk about changing our political / governmental system, but into what is never really concretely joined with how to implement.
People talk about term limits. I see no chance in hell of that ever getting implemented.
Trump has promised term limits. It's one of the few promises I think he should get a pass on because I see no way in hell one man in the Oval Office can pull that off.
If he were to pull that off? I would be profoundly impressed and thankful. (jokes about the Nobel prize come to mind... )

But regardless, I don't even think term limits are an effective solution although I see them as providing much more concrete pluses than minuses and they have my support.
I think a more substantial solution...
One that could actually give third party votes a chance is a two-round vote system similar to what France has implemented.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-round_system
Without that, third party votes will always be a pipe-dream.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2017, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Yet again, I ask the simple question.
What personal morality did I violate by voting for Clinton?

And if wishes were horses then beggars would ride.


Quite frankly, when some people spend too much time refusing to admit Trump can do any wrong, it exacerbates the problem.
One thing I find hilarious about this thread is how much time you and some others are trying to spend telling me a vote for Hillary is wrong.
Simple question for you: Are you putting in the same effort regarding Trump?

Or, in truth, is this all a one-sided effort and you don't even appreciate how you are enabling the problem?



More to the general concept, this whole "well, if enough of us ..." is a pipe dream.
The below youtube video helps explain it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
People talk about changing our political / governmental system, but into what is never really concretely joined with how to implement.
People talk about term limits. I see no chance in hell of that ever getting implemented.
Trump has promised term limits. It's one of the few promises I think he should get a pass on because I see no way in hell one man in the Oval Office can pull that off.
If he were to pull that off? I would be profoundly impressed and thankful. (jokes about the Nobel prize come to mind... )

But regardless, I don't even think term limits are an effective solution although I see them as providing much more concrete pluses than minuses and they have my support.
I think a more substantial solution...
One that could actually give third party votes a chance is a two-round vote system similar to what France has implemented.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-round_system
Without that, third party votes will always be a pipe-dream.
I will be responding to this:
Quote:
What personal morality did I violate by voting for Clinton?
If you voted for either one, not just if you voted for Clinton, you intentionally voted for the lesser of evils. It doesn't matter that it was likely one of the two would end up in the WH, you 'supported' them by voting for them.

A vote for neither of them, while a small voice, is still a voice.

I haven't had a chance to read your link regarding France's system, but I will. I have brought up the UK's multi-party system, which though it usually ends up between the two major ones, our current system doesn't even give 3rd parties a chance.

Term limits, IMO, is a have-to, if we are ever going to clear the crud from DC. Along with term limits, I would like to see the automatic for-life payments gone, and see them have to deal with the same healthcare system everyone they supposedly 'represent' has to deal with.... at their expense.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Note: AZRWinger continues to provide absolutely no evidence for his claim that I have made strawman arguments out of editing his posts...
And he refuses to even pretend he has any evidence...
But that doesn't stop him from claiming it happens.


It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to recognize they are BOTH accurate.



ROFLMAO!
You have absolutely nothing topical to say at this stage.



One: You still can't quote me where my method of quoting misrepresented you.
Ergo, proving your claim a lie.

Two: I am amused at how many other people respond to me without throwing a hissy fit over posting flow.
But you have become consumed by it. To the extent you can't talk about anything but that.
I am not going to debate your unethical practice of editing my comments. You freely admit you engage in the practice but insist I must debate it with you. It is inherent in editing other people's comments that you create straw men you can attack.

Your lack of integrity is manifest in the excuses you offer for distorting other people's comments. Somehow we are all supposed to trust your judgement chopping up comments you disagree with, not just in the past but in the future as well. It is a patently absurd proposition but the best you can offer.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
I am not going to debate your unethical practice of editing my comments. You freely admit you engage in the practice but insist I must debate it with you. It is inherent in editing other people's comments that you create straw men you can attack.
Gawd your dishonesty is astounding.
I am not asking you to "debate" the practice.
I am asking you to provide evidence to your claim that I construct ANY strawman arguments in my reply to you.
YOU MADE that claim.
You cowardly refuse to validate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Your lack of integrity is manifest in the excuses you offer for distorting other people's comments. Somehow we are all supposed to trust your judgement chopping up comments you disagree with, not just in the past but in the future as well. It is a patently absurd proposition but the best you can offer.
No. I don't think anybody is "supposed to trust my judgement chopping up comments I disagree with".
What I am saying is that when you claim I do that to make strawman argument lies, that you prove your claim.
If anybody sees me misrepresenting something, call it out WITH DOCUMENTATION OF WHAT I GOT WRONG.

Repeatedly, you dodge and balk and refuse to validate your claim. You claim I repeatedly misrepresent your arguments, but you cannot present EVEN ONE ARGUMENT where I supposedly did that.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2017, 08:48 PM
Bat Bat is offline
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
First off, you shifted the goals on my analogy.
I was making the point of the analogy YOUR JUDGMENT on people choosing between two options where both options are bad.
Instead of acknowledging that, you shift your approach ...



No. She had more than two options.
She could have chosen not to choose.
She could have chosen to try to run.
Are you saying she couldn't have chosen those options?

She could have chosen a variety of ineffectual options which would have changed nothing to the actual outcome.
And that is the fact that you refuse to acknowledge. THE ACTUAL OUTCOME was always going to be one of two choices.
a) Trump, OR
b) Clinton.

Just like you had many options, but only two outcomes regardless of what option you chose.
THAT is what you are refusing to acknowledge.
THAT is why the analogy is relevant.



ROFLMAO!
You are sorely mistaken if you think me telling you this analogy is about me "justifying" my decision to you.

If anything, you should practice some self-introspection to try to figure out why you care so much for trying to care about your condemnation of my choice.
The only other person I have ever met in my life that is as mnemonically manipulative as you was a bible banging english major with a huge helping of narcissism.

I give up.

Mickeyy's signature says, "It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.", and I agree with that.
Beyond that, it is never time well spent to argue with a mnemonically manipulative narcissist.
Good day.
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2017, 10:44 PM
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Post Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat View Post
The only other person I have ever met in my life that is as mnemonically manipulative as you was a bible banging english major with a huge helping of narcissism.
I give up.
Mickeyy's signature says, "It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's damn near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person.", and I agree with that.
Beyond that, it is never time well spent to argue with a mnemonically manipulative narcissist.
Good day.
You could have ended with class instead of going full ad hominem.
But I guess it shouldn't surprise me...
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