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Religion & Philosophy Discuss More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by Bat BWAAAHAAAHAAA Here is straw, grasp it. Can you contribute to the discussion or is meaningless mocking ...

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Old 09-18-2017, 11:15 AM
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Post Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

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BWAAAHAAAHAAA
Here is straw, grasp it.
Can you contribute to the discussion or is meaningless mocking all you have?

Can you explain the shift over time as documented in the article?
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Old 09-19-2017, 12:17 AM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I've heard people repeatedly criticize atheists on the issue of morality. Some people evidently have limited or no comprehension how a moral structure can exist without somebody telling you what to think...


I found the below quite amusing in that context.
No group has shifted their position more dramatically than white evangelical Protestants. More than seven in ten (72%) white evangelical Protestants say an elected official can behave ethically even if they have committed transgressions in their personal life—a 42-point jump from 2011, when only 30 % of white evangelical Protestants said the same. Roughly six in ten white mainline Protestants (60%) and Catholics (58%) also believe elected officials can behave honestly and ethically in their public roles regardless of their personal behavior. In 2011, only about four in ten white mainline Protestants (38%) and Catholics (42%) held this view. Notably, religiously unaffiliated Americans have remained constant in their views; six in ten (60%) believe elected officials who behave immorally in their personal lives can still perform their duties with integrity, compared to 63% in 2011.
https://www.prri.org/research/prri-b...it-lead-trump/

When you base your morality just on what others tell you to think, it can easily change when inconvenient.
Actually reasoning your way through morality is what makes it strong.
The buffoonery continues, the excerpt is plucked from an October 2016 that showed Hillary with a double digit and growing lead. It is amusing to see the desperation involved in claiming that despite the wild inaccuracy of the survey in predicting the Presidential race, it must be accurate in its findings of immorality impacting suitability for public office.

But it is downright dishonest to imply that evangelicals only shifted to accommodate Trump when

Quote:
Across the political spectrum, Americans today are less likely to believe personal transgressions prevent public officials from performing their duties well. Seven in ten (70%) Republicans and more than six in ten Democrats (61%) and independents (63%) say public officials can behave ethically in their professional roles even if they acted immorally in their personal life. Notably, in 2011 only 36% of Republicans agreed, compared to nearly half of Democrats (49%) and independents (46%).
The pattern of deceptive editing on your part is too pronounced to be anything but deliberate. Nothing is out of bounds as long as it can be made to advance the partisan hatred.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:18 AM
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Post Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

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The buffoonery continues, the excerpt is plucked from an October 2016 that showed Hillary with a double digit and growing lead. It is amusing to see the desperation involved in claiming that despite the wild inaccuracy of the survey in predicting the Presidential race, it must be accurate in its findings of immorality impacting suitability for public office.
October 2016 is a month away from the actual election, ergo whatever insinuation you claim on this is irrelevant. The lead fluctuated throughout the election cycle and in the end vote Hillary did win the popular vote which helps demonstrate that the overall polls were accurate on identifying who would win the popular vote.


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But it is downright dishonest to imply that evangelicals only shifted to accommodate Trump when

The pattern of deceptive editing on your part is too pronounced to be anything but deliberate. Nothing is out of bounds as long as it can be made to advance the partisan hatred.
You repeatedly make claims that are not based on facts. This is one of them.

Did I say Repubs were the only problem?
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

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Did you even bother to read the article?
It showed by their response to questions over time how it has shifted.
So this crap about "well, that's not the way it is..." is just your personal anecdotal way of ignoring the topic.
Read my last response to Jimbo. Consider it an answer to you as well.
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Old 09-19-2017, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

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October 2016 is a month away from the actual election, ergo whatever insinuation you claim on this is irrelevant. The lead fluctuated throughout the election cycle and in the end vote Hillary did win the popular vote which helps demonstrate that the overall polls were accurate on identifying who would win the popular vote.



You repeatedly make claims that are not based on facts. This is one of them.

Did I say Repubs were the only problem?
Do show where according to this polling company the lead shifted pre election to Trump, with links please. Didn't happen.

The poll was wildly incorrect in its main focus, predicting the winner of the Presidential election so it's reasonable to question its accuracy on the secondary polling as well. You can't honestly be so obtuse as to ignore their faulty polling just because it confirms your bias against Trump. Oh wait.

The poll attempts to predict the winner of the Presidential election which as we both know is not necessarily the winner of the nationwide popular vote. So your popular vote malarkey is nonsense.

Once again you edit my comment like a child caught telling a lie denies their dishonesty. I simply pointed out with a quote from the article where you had deceptively excerpted to make it appear the attitude shift was among evangelicals when in fact it was across the political spectrum.
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Old 09-22-2017, 02:39 PM
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Post Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

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Did you even bother to read the article?
It showed by their response to questions over time how it has shifted.
So this crap about "well, that's not the way it is..." is just your personal anecdotal way of ignoring the topic.
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Read my last response to Jimbo. Consider it an answer to you as well.
All that response is doing is proving exactly what I said above.

You are proclaiming your opinion on how you think evangelicals think to ignore the actual polls that show the shift over time.
You're refusing to discuss the evidence in front of you as you try to pretend something else has happened.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:26 PM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

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All that response is doing is proving exactly what I said above.

You are proclaiming your opinion on how you think evangelicals think to ignore the actual polls that show the shift over time.
You're refusing to discuss the evidence in front of you as you try to pretend something else has happened.
it doesn't prove anything you said because what you said has absolutely nothing to do with what *I* said, to begin with as what I said had absolutely nothing to do with evangelicals or anyone else"ignoring the actual polls." All I was pointing out was that it only makes sense that more Americans say it's not disqualifying, because evangelicals (those whom anti-theists tend to think are myopic) are actually like others too--they know that there's more to leadership than things like past "Access Holywood" tapes. In other words, they're human, just like everyone else.
Stop responding in knee-jerk belligerence. You will find parallel or even agreeable arguments to your own from time to time if you'd just stop.
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Old 09-25-2017, 11:41 AM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

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it doesn't prove anything you said because what you said has absolutely nothing to do with what *I* said, to begin with as what I said had absolutely nothing to do with evangelicals or anyone else"ignoring the actual polls."
Joe, I'm going to try to dumb this down for you. Again.
You said:
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I may have not explained myself clearly. What I mean is, I think most evangelicals (in fact most PEOPLE) don't see LEADERSHIP and what it takes to lead the country in such black and white terms. They know it's more complicated than that. Obviously they do, because this story bears it out.
But the problem with such a claim is it only (possibly) looks at ONE of the data points in the article.
There were TWO data points demonstrating a shift in position over time.

You keep wanting to focus on the last data point and assess that leadership is not black and white.
But the problem is that ignores the past where they have had much higher focus on morality for governmental leadership.

You repeatedly insist on ignoring both data points.


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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
All I was pointing out was that it only makes sense that more Americans say it's not disqualifying, because evangelicals (those whom anti-theists tend to think are myopic) are actually like others too--they know that there's more to leadership than things like past "Access Holywood" tapes. In other words, they're human, just like everyone else.
You are doing that thing again where you ignore what others are saying while you blindly repeat yourself, failing to appreciate that your response has already been acknowledged and addressed.

To repeat, there are two data points at hand here
More than seven in ten (72%) white evangelical Protestants say an elected official can behave ethically even if they have committed transgressions in their personal lifea 42-point jump from 2011, when only 30 % of white evangelical Protestants said the same.


WHY was there that 42% shift? A rather HUGE shift over that relatively short time-frame.
It's all about ignoring how much of a moral **** Trump is. Evangelicals suddenly realized that to support Trump, they would have to jettison that morality.
And they did...
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

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To repeat, there are two data points at hand here
More than seven in ten (72%) white evangelical Protestants say an elected official can behave ethically even if they have committed transgressions in their personal lifea 42-point jump from 2011, when only 30 % of white evangelical Protestants said the same.


WHY was there that 42% shift? A rather HUGE shift over that relatively short time-frame.
It's all about ignoring how much of a moral **** Trump is. Evangelicals suddenly realized that to support Trump, they would have to jettison that morality.
And they did...
Meh. What a bunch of hooey over nothing.
has it not occurred to you that maybe this group has simply evolved in the way they see things? Believe it or not, evangelicals are human too and their views on things shift. If you look at evangelicals' views on gay marriage, for instance, acceptance of it has jumped close to 15% in the last 5 years. That doesn't make them 'hypocrites'--just means their views are shifting.
What you are really trying to do here (which everyone knows) is to find some stone to throw at evangelicals with this. Something you drudged up to try and point a finger at them, over. The only people that really care more would be anti-theists, like yourself.
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:33 PM
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Post Re: More Americans Say Personal Immorality Not Disqualifying for Elected Officials

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What a bunch of hooey over nothing.
Any truth that is inconvenient for you gets disregarded as meaningless.


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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
has it not occurred to you that maybe this group has simply evolved in the way they see things?
And the driving force behind that "evolution" has been President Elect, Donald Trump.


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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Believe it or not, evangelicals are human too and their views on things shift. If you look at evangelicals' views on gay marriage, for instance, acceptance of it has jumped close to 15% in the last 5 years. That doesn't make them 'hypocrites'--just means their views are shifting.
Do me a favor and look back through this thread.
Find the post where somebody claimed they were "hypocrites".
And then be truthful in admitting it isn't there.

That's yet another of your strawman arguments.


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What you are really trying to do here (which everyone knows) is to find some stone to throw at evangelicals with this.
Time and time again you say things which should be repeated back at you on your threads against gays.
This being one of them. You trying to find some stone to throw at gays with the variety of stuff you post.

The glaring difference being that if you look at the sheer quantity of threads you create about gays and the quantity of threads I create about evangelicals, it's nowhere even close.
Your fixation is much higher.


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Something you drudged up to try and point a finger at them, over. The only people that really care more would be anti-theists, like yourself.
I invite the viewing audience to go back and read the posts I have actually submitted on this thread.
Joe Shoe has been the one to fixate on the fact that they are "evangelicals".
Not me.

My focus, from the start has been on something else entirely different.
When you base your morality just on what others tell you to think, it can easily change when inconvenient.
Actually reasoning your way through morality is what makes it strong.
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