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Mikeyy 12-12-2014 05:51 AM

Animals in Heaven
 
Some popes say animals don't go to heaven and this pope says they do. The argument is whether they have a soul.

Anyone who thinks dogs don't have souls shouldn't go to heaven if it existed.

If there aren't dogs and other animals in heaven you can have it. I wouldn't go if they invited me. Which from all indications they won't.

300 H and H 12-12-2014 06:13 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
I think they do go...:)

Especially if they had a good relationship with their masters.

I sure hope so anyway, as I can't imagine myself without a dog or a cat around..

As for you Mikeyy, you still have time..., if you care to...

Regards, Kirk

Mikeyy 12-12-2014 06:18 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Nah, Not really interested. Everything I hear about Heaven is not the sort of afterlife that appeals to me. I would rather be worm food.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 300 H and H (Post 718560)
I think they do go...:)

Especially if they had a good relationship with their masters.

I sure hope so anyway, as I can't imagine myself without a dog or a cat around..

As for you Mikeyy, you still have time..., if you care to...

Regards, Kirk


300 H and H 12-12-2014 06:22 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy (Post 718561)
Nah, Not really interested. Everything I hear about Heaven is not the sort of afterlife that appeals to me. I would rather be worm food.

Your body will be...

Your soul, well that's up to you. I hope you choose wisely..:)

And it is a choice BTW.

Regards, Kirk

Mikeyy 12-12-2014 06:26 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
According to you and your faith. I think differently. I do like animals though.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 300 H and H (Post 718564)
Your body will be...

Your soul, well that's up to you. I hope you choose wisely..:)

And it is a choice BTW.

Regards, Kirk


Oftencold 12-12-2014 01:22 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy (Post 718558)
Some popes say animals don't go to heaven and this pope says they do. The argument is whether they have a soul.

Anyone who thinks dogs don't have souls shouldn't go to heaven if it existed.

If there aren't dogs and other animals in heaven you can have it. I wouldn't go if they invited me. Which from all indications they won't.

My theological opinion is that the scripturally implied answer to the question is "it's none of your business what provisions God makes for other Life, especially in light of the mess we make of Human Life."

It would be like the patient in the emergency room who's getting stitched up for the nth time for cutting himself during a drunken binge after a couple of bar fights demanding, long before the bleeding's stopped or he's sobered up, to know how the vet across town if running his practice.

FrancSevin 12-12-2014 06:16 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
I am always amazed at the inability of the worldly to understand the concept of Heaven.


A man finds himself dreaming that he is walking up a trail with his favorite pet Labrador. The dog had passed years ago, so he came to the conclusion, ,,,,he must be dreaming. But it seemed a pleasant dream and so, he went on.

He sees an old cabin on the side of the road, a white haired gentleman sitting on the porch, who waves a smile, and offers him a rest in the shade.


"It is hot today, my dog is old and could use a bit of water. Would you mind if he came into your yard?"

"Yes, yes I know", said the gentleman. "Come, sit in the shade, and I'll get him a cool drink."

"Nice cabin," said the hiker. "I always wanted something simple and quiet like this"
"I know what you mean.' responded the old man. "it is a nice place here, simple but peaceful." He spoke further, "I like it too. It's my Heaven.'

"It can't be Heaven." said the hiker. "I was always told Heaven was all gold and ivory, this is just too plain."

"Yes it is, but if you are looking for something fancier, just stroll a few steps up the path. You see it."

And so the hiker left with his pup and went a few more steps up the trail.

AND THERE IT WAS! A huge gate of gold and silver held by luminous pillars of Ivory. beyond it he could see well dressed people eating at a huge buffet, luscious green grass, brooks flowing honey and wine. Just as he imagined, and he knew then he had died and passed. This was his reward, just as he had imagined.

He stepped forward to the gate which opened and out from it came a handsome young man to warmly greet him. "Hello and welcome. Please come in and join us."
The dog hesitated, "Can my friend come too?" asked the hiker.

"No, we have a policy".

"But he must come with me. He is my best friend."

"Look at this place, everyone is young and well dressed, and everything is spotless. He is but a mangy flea bitten cur." Then rather sternly, " You must choose."

"Heaven or not, I will not abandon my dog, my friend, my companion." And with that, the old hiker turned and went back down the road. As he came again top the cabin, the nice old man waved a greeting.

"How was your walk?""Not so great," he responded. "I found out I was dead and my dog could not go to Heaven."
"Who told you that?'

"The young man at the Heavenly Gate up yonder." he complained. And relayed his whole story.

The old man sighed, "We get that story a lot, ever since they built that place. But don't fret. You are dead yes, but that wasn't Heaven."

"This is, and you and your old friend are welcome here."

Mikeyy 12-12-2014 09:39 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
That is an episode of the Twilight Zone starring Arthur Hunicutt.

Here enjoy it.


Lollie 12-12-2014 11:47 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy (Post 718561)
Nah, Not really interested. Everything I hear about Heaven is not the sort of afterlife that appeals to me. I would rather be worm food.

Re: animals in Heaven.
Have you asked Briar about this?
What did he have to say?
I bet he believes in Heaven (and The Rainbow Bridge), even if his Daddy don't.
:nahnah

Johnny West 12-12-2014 11:52 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy (Post 718561)
Nah, Not really interested. Everything I hear about Heaven is not the sort of afterlife that appeals to me. I would rather be worm food.

Birds gotta eat, same as worms.

Johnny West 12-12-2014 11:56 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
I look forward to running the fields again with Bunny, Sid, Blue, Banjo, Banjo, and Gin's I, II and III. I miss them all.

saltwn 12-13-2014 12:50 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Mugsy, Butch, Impy, Daniel, Rebel, Rusty, Hobo...

FrancSevin 12-13-2014 03:19 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy (Post 718774)
That is an episode of the Twilight Zone starring Arthur Hunicutt.

Here enjoy it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkG2bWGZR2M

Thanks Mikeyy. that story always stuck with me. I didn't recall from where I had heard it though,

Twilight Zone. That is a long time ago unless one spends their days watching the telly.

Mikeyy 12-13-2014 03:58 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
That one always stuck with me as well.
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrancSevin (Post 718820)
Thanks Mikeyy. that story always stuck with me. I didn't recall from where I had heard it though,

Twilight Zone. That is a long time ago unless one spends their days watching the telly.


ShivaTD 12-13-2014 07:28 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy (Post 718558)
Some popes say animals don't go to heaven and this pope says they do. The argument is whether they have a soul.

Anyone who thinks dogs don't have souls shouldn't go to heaven if it existed.

If there aren't dogs and other animals in heaven you can have it. I wouldn't go if they invited me. Which from all indications they won't.

It is grossly unfair to ask Christians about heaven because they don't have any clue about it. They believe in it but don't have any ideas about what it would be. They can't answer even the most pragmatic of questions.... such as....

... if you're married, your spouse dies, and you remarry then what happens if all three people end up in heaven? What if your two spouses hate each other's guts? That would be an eternal living hell. What if they don't? Do you get to live in a three-way marriage in heaven (and if so why couldn't you do that here?).

No, it's not fair to ask Christians any questions about heaven because it's a mythical place that doesn't even work if questions are asked about it.

Manitou 12-13-2014 09:36 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShivaTD (Post 718834)
No, it's not fair to ask Christians any questions about heaven because it's a mythical place that doesn't even work if questions are asked about it.

Golly! Have you bothered to ask any Muslims about Paradise then? Wait until they hear you tell them it's a mythical place also, eh?

FrancSevin 12-13-2014 04:51 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShivaTD (Post 718834)
It is grossly unfair to ask Christians about heaven because they don't have any clue about it. They believe in it but don't have any ideas about what it would be. They can't answer even the most pragmatic of questions.... such as....

... if you're married, your spouse dies, and you remarry then what happens if all three people end up in heaven? What if your two spouses hate each other's guts? That would be an eternal living hell. What if they don't? Do you get to live in a three-way marriage in heaven (and if so why couldn't you do that here?).

No, it's not fair to ask Christians any questions about heaven because it's a mythical place that doesn't even work if questions are asked about it.


As I said, I am always amazed, and often amused, at how the worldly interpret Heaven.

It is not a "place."

cnredd 12-13-2014 05:26 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Update - A little clarification...

Do animals go to heaven? Pope Francis may not have weighed in after all

Quote:

Can animals go to heaven?

Some people all over the world have been excited in recent days about reports by news agencies worldwide -- including one from CNN -- declaring that Pope Francis apparently believes they can.

It turns out it's unclear what he believes about this.

A previous pope, Paul VI, had no doubts. "One day we will again see our animals in the eternity of Christ," Paul once told a boy grieving the loss of his pet.

That quote, from the pontiff who reigned from 1963 until his death in 1978, was inaccurately attributed to Francis.

The confusion may have begun when Italian daily newspaper Corriere della Sera referred to Paul's quote in a story that carried the headline, "The pope and animals: 'Heaven is open to all creatures.'"

The story itself does not indicate Francis said that. Instead, it refers back to Paul VI.

The writer for the newspaper pointed to something Francis actually did say: "Sacred Scripture teaches us that the fulfillment of this marvelous plan cannot but involve everything that surrounds us and came from the heart and mind of God."

That remark, the writer suggested, "widened the hope of salvation" to animals and all of creation.

The headline on the article quoted Francis as saying, "Heaven is open to all creatures." But there's no sign Francis said that.

A search through the current Pope's writings and remarks showed no immediate sign that he has taken a clear position on the question.

Mikeyy 12-13-2014 08:49 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
This is what happened.

During a recent public appearance, Francis comforted a boy whose dog had died, noting, "One day, we will see our animals again in the eternity of Christ. Paradise is open to all of God's creatures."

Sounds pretty straight forward to me but like a room full of friggin lawyers the church comes in to make it into some sort of confusion and so to keep people using their services. This is why organized religion sucks. And why Francis scares church insiders.



Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd (Post 718905)


loboloco 12-13-2014 09:00 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
All dogs go to heaven. Cats, not so much. The little SOB's are too much like people.

Manitou 12-13-2014 09:08 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrancSevin (Post 718904)
As I said, I am always amazed, and often amused, at how the worldly interpret Heaven.

It is not a "place."

And I have to say that I am amused you know that Heaven is not a place.:D

Mikeyy 12-13-2014 09:14 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Like hell it's not

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FNQWUvSqtq...0/IMG_3162.JPG



Quote:

Originally Posted by Manitou (Post 718923)
And I have to say that I am amused you know that Heaven is not a place.:D


saltwn 12-14-2014 12:48 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShivaTD (Post 718834)
It is grossly unfair to ask Christians about heaven because they don't have any clue about it. They believe in it but don't have any ideas about what it would be. They can't answer even the most pragmatic of questions.... such as....

... if you're married, your spouse dies, and you remarry then what happens if all three people end up in heaven? What if your two spouses hate each other's guts? That would be an eternal living hell. What if they don't? Do you get to live in a three-way marriage in heaven (and if so why couldn't you do that here?).

No, it's not fair to ask Christians any questions about heaven because it's a mythical place that doesn't even work if questions are asked about it.

23 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, So too happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died. 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32[B] ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

33 When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.

:fyi

--Matthew 22:23-30

ShivaTD 12-15-2014 07:00 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrancSevin (Post 718904)
As I said, I am always amazed, and often amused, at how the worldly interpret Heaven.

It is not a "place."

Don't tell my mom that. She's turning 95 next month and recently commented to me that she believes she will be sitting at the "feet of Christ" presumably singing "Kumbaya" for the next hundred zillion years of eternity (and that sounds very boring to me).

Of course there are some from the '60's that believed they were in "heaven" when tripping on LSD and who am I to argue with them.

In truth "eternal life" would always result in "eternal boredom" and that's an absurd proposition.

ShivaTD 12-15-2014 07:31 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn (Post 718943)
.... they will be like the angels in heaven.

If I recall the Biblical story correctly Satan was an angel that rebelled at the absolute tyranny of the God of Abraham.

Of course this was just a story created by men based upon the earlier Epic of Gilgamesh that provided the foundation for the Hebrew religious texts. If we trace religions back far enough they originate with early cave paintings and stories of superstition that existed long before the written languages of Mesopotamia in about 3,300 BCE (or about 2700 years before the Hebrew Torah was written in 600 BCE).

The study of the evolution of religion from early superstition and myth is a facinating field of inquiry. They all really have the same origins in myth and superstition and then layer is built upon layer until we reach the present day religious beliefs.

For example Christianity is based upon the Hebrew Torah (that was based upon the Epic of Gilgamesh) with a little Greek/Roman mythology tossed into the mix so that it could be marketed to the Romans along with the Jews.

Manitou 12-15-2014 09:30 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
I find it amusing that some people use BCE (before the common era) instead of BC (before Christ), both designations meaning the reckoning of the times, which is the birth of Jesus, the year 1 Anno Domini (the year of our Lord).

Mikeyy 12-15-2014 09:32 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
You find that amusing. You are easily entertained.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Manitou (Post 719152)
I find it amusing that some people use BCE (before the common era) instead of BC (before Christ), both designations meaning the reckoning of the times, which is the birth of Jesus, the year 1 Anno Domini (the year of our Lord).


Manitou 12-15-2014 09:49 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy (Post 719155)
You find that amusing. You are easily entertained.

And you are one of the best entertainers here, more fun than a barrel of drunken monkeys.:D

MrLiberty 12-15-2014 10:13 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Well, they better have deer in heaven cause I want to do some hunting. :yes

Mikeyy 12-15-2014 10:15 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrLiberty (Post 719162)
Well, they better have deer in heaven cause I want to do some hunting. :yes

Why? You like to kill things? You won't need food in heaven from what I hear

Manitou 12-15-2014 10:19 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy (Post 719163)
Why? You like to kill things? You won't need food in heaven from what I hear

You didn't see that Twilight Zone episode, did you?

Mikeyy 12-15-2014 10:20 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Manitou (Post 719164)
You didn't see that Twilight Zone episode, did you?

Yes I did. He doesn't kill anything in heaven. He is hunting when he dies.

Manitou 12-15-2014 10:31 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy (Post 719165)
Yes I did. He doesn't kill anything in heaven. He is hunting when he dies.

Yes, and he asks if there is any 'coon hunting in Heaven.

Mikeyy 12-15-2014 10:40 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Manitou (Post 719170)
Yes, and he asks if there is any 'coon hunting in Heaven.

Not in the episode I saw. He just wants his dog to be allowed in heaven. Besides that what sort of heaven would that be for the coon? I believe what they say is that in heaven the lion will lie down with the lamb. Maybe you and ML can have a shootout. Heaven for me would be seeing the animals shoot back. LOL

Manitou 12-15-2014 10:46 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikeyy (Post 719173)
Not in the episode I saw. He just wants his dog to be allowed in heaven. Besides that what sort of heaven would that be for the coon? I believe what they say is that in heaven the lion will lie down with the lamb. Maybe you and ML can have a shootout. Heaven for me would be seeing the animals shoot back. LOL

I hear there is a hell for bad liberals, who wind up there getting their asses kicked by conservative demons for all eternity.

Mikeyy 12-15-2014 10:52 AM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
I guess there has to be a first time for everything.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Manitou (Post 719174)
I hear there is a hell for bad liberals, who wind up there getting their asses kicked by conservative demons for all eternity.


Deckard 12-16-2014 07:29 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
I was brought up Mormon so I get my own planet and become a GOD, all animals welcome. Heaven is for pussies!

Mikeyy 12-16-2014 07:52 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Your own planet? Where do I sign up. Give me the magic underwear Mitt.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckard (Post 719481)
I was brought up Mormon so I get my own planet and become a GOD, all animals welcome. Heaven is for pussies!


Deckard 12-16-2014 08:02 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 

Oftencold 12-16-2014 09:08 PM

Re: Animals in Heaven
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ShivaTD (Post 719136)
If I recall the Biblical story correctly Satan was an angel that rebelled at the absolute tyranny of the God of Abraham.

Of course this was just a story created by men based upon the earlier Epic of Gilgamesh that provided the foundation for the Hebrew religious texts. If we trace religions back far enough they originate with early cave paintings and stories of superstition that existed long before the written languages of Mesopotamia in about 3,300 BCE (or about 2700 years before the Hebrew Torah was written in 600 BCE).

The study of the evolution of religion from early superstition and myth is a facinating field of inquiry. They all really have the same origins in myth and superstition and then layer is built upon layer until we reach the present day religious beliefs.

For example Christianity is based upon the Hebrew Torah (that was based upon the Epic of Gilgamesh) with a little Greek/Roman mythology tossed into the mix so that it could be marketed to the Romans along with the Jews.

Oddly, I'm lagely convinced that you are a pre-Helenistic myth.

I also find it curious that anyone would create for self-serving purposes, a religion that calls for everyone to think of themselves as no better than anyone else, and to be glad servants to individuals, not a state, not a priestly caste, not a village, not a race, not a family, bu to individuals, each and every individual individually.


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