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Religion & Philosophy Discuss Real Consequences of Atheism at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by rivrrat Yes, you made the claim. I questioned how you arrived there. I can't prove how you ...

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  #141 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2014, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Real Consequences of Atheism

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Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
Yes, you made the claim. I questioned how you arrived there. I can't prove how you arrived there, only you can.


I asked you what suppositions that you believe I have made that you are asking me to prove.
No you didn't. You offered alternate history and when that failed,,,,You demanded I provide
the proof you could not.

As for suppositions, I could not have been more emphatic or clear. Yet you again claim different.


Unless you have something else, I'm done here.
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  #142 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2014, 05:26 PM
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Default Re: Real Consequences of Atheism

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
No you didn't. You offered alternate history and when that failed,,,,You demanded I provide
the proof you could not.
What the hell are you talking about? I offered an alternate history of what?

Quote:
As for suppositions, I could not have been more emphatic or clear. Yet you again claim different.
Yes, you could have been much more clear, hence my asking you what in the f*cking hell you are going on about. Since you refuse to explain yourself, the only conclusion I can see is that you were making sh*t up and now can't remember what the hell you made up.

Quote:
Unless you have something else, I'm done here.
Did you ever start here? All I've seen so far is you making false claims and then asking to back up something I never said. I do hope you are done with that. But if and when you ever decide to say something that makes sense, we'll still be here.


CONVO PRECEDING THIS:
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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Since no other animal on the planet seems to possess the quality we have labeled as a conscience, Darwin's law suggests, by virtue of elimination, the latter.
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Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
How would you know if anyone or anything has a conscience, since that's purely in one's head?
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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
It's not about what "I" know but what you purport as the truth.

Again I make the same demand you do.

With all the thousands of animals who have been under study to prove everything from behavior, to adaptation, to psychologies related to man, and even to prove evolutionary theory,,,,,,,surely some open minded anthropologist in the last 160 years has discovered something to support your suppositions here.

Linky needed.

Prove it.

So where in that convo did I make a 'supposition'? What alternate history did I offer? Where were you clear about what you are demanding me to prove?

In that convo, YOU made a supposition. I asked you how you got to that point. Then you stated that I was the one who purported something as truth.

When your head clears up, you're welcome to try again.
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Last edited by rivrrat; 04-13-2014 at 05:38 PM..
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  #143 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2014, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Real Consequences of Atheism

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
And I believe you are also confused. You quoted me in a response to someone else perhaps? If not then try looking thru the other end of the lens I posted.

BTW Noah and Adam did not predate Hammurabi. Never said that. But to your point, I found out yesterday that a papyrus document some 2.50" X 4.0" was found and proven to be from 830 AD or so. It claims Jesus had a wife. I doubt it proves it, but many will claim evidence that he did and had sons. Doubtful, but such is the path written history takes making it so much closer to the truth than any mythologies right?
Sorry i didn't mean to misquote you.
let it stand as my statement.

Here' my position on the history.
The biblical docs are a true and factual account of all it affirms.
the original information in it comes from sources that date near its origin for each account. Much information there is communication directly from God, all of it was directed by God.

I've seen nothing to date that's strong enough to displace the accounts recorded. And much to confirm it.

so i think my telescope is fine. I was an agnostic, what historians "know" is interesting but often built on far less than it likes to portray itself as having.
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  #144 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2014, 05:36 PM
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Sorry i didn't mean to misquote you.
let it stand as my statement.

Here' my position on the history.
The biblical docs are a true and factual account of all it affirms.
the original information in it comes from sources that date near its origin for each account. Much information there is communication directly from God, all of it was directed by God.

I've seen nothing to date that's strong enough to displace the accounts recorded. And much to confirm it.

so i think my telescope is fine. I was an agnostic, what historians "know" is interesting but often built on far less than it likes to portray itself as having.
I am mostly with you here. However, I do not need the Dead Sea Scrolls to validate the scriptures. But, it is comforting that they do. One thing HE said, one important gift HE left after death covers it all. "The Holy Spirit shall come upon you."
True or not, you cannot believe and not know it's meaning. Not only to those who preach but mostly to those like me, who only witness thru how we live.
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  #145 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2014, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: Real Consequences of Atheism

FYI

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  #146 (permalink)  
Old 06-04-2014, 07:07 AM
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Default Re: Real Consequences of Atheism

This is a slightly edited post I put on another site many years ago:

I don't buy into the dogma of any organized religion.

That being said I think defining your belief as an atheist is equally irrational. One cannot disprove the existence of God any more than they can prove it. You can point out inconsistencies in the tenets of organized religion. That doesn't disprove the existence of supernatural forces in the universe. You cannot logically deny that there are forces in the universe we don't understand. I think those incomprehensible forces break down in terms of good and evil.

True, organized religion was invented by the leaders of ancient men when there was no science to explain natural occurrences. The result is that a "moral compass" was created. It is the basis of the laws in our society to this day. Yes you can point to many awful things in the Bible. That doesn't negate the fact that the Bible authors defined good and evil and set down laws that determine how society must proceed to perpetuate itself.

As an anti-religion person you may say there were many atrocities perpetrated by religion and you will be right. Most of the religious atrocities are committed in the name of Islam not Christianity or Judaism. This goes back thousands of years, but since the 7th century AD the primary religious perpetrator has been Islam.

What has been the religion committing the worst atrocities in history? Is it Islam? No. Christianity? No. It is what is often referred to as "Social Darwinism". That is the atheistic philosophy that takes Darwin’s research as proof that God does not exist. When people believe that, out goes in the "moral compass" and into power comes the likes of Hitler and Stalin.

Many scientists agree DNA is a tool that was used by whoever or whatever greeted the universe. They have determined that DNA represents a plan for our existence. It points out that we are not just some random occurrence. As I said above that there are incomprehensible forces in the universe. As our knowledge grows we begin to understand more and more of it. A hundred years ago we barely understood bacteria. Today look at our medical understanding of DNA and other medical and scientific subjects. Maybe a hundred years from now we will be able to explain more of creation.
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