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Religion & Philosophy Discuss Us non believers at the General Discussion; Over 40 Years of Research Show Atheists Are Despised, Distrusted. Why do you think that is? Gallup Polls & Other ...

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Old 06-27-2008, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: Us non believers

Over 40 Years of Research Show Atheists Are Despised, Distrusted. Why do you think that is?

Gallup Polls & Other Surveys on American Attitudes Towards Atheists - Over 40 Years of Research Show Atheists Are Despised, Distrusted
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Old 06-27-2008, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Us non believers

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Over 40 Years of Research Show Atheists Are Despised, Distrusted. Why do you think that is?

Gallup Polls & Other Surveys on American Attitudes Towards Atheists - Over 40 Years of Research Show Atheists Are Despised, Distrusted
I think that every group of people who are different from any other group are despised and distrusted. Christians feel the same way, Mikeyy. If you think about it, we humans are not very good (and have never proven to be very good) at appreciating one another for our differences. Rather than building bridges to unite us we have built walls to keep us separated....whether it be over racial, cultural, religious or political differences.

I attribute it to The Fall (to answer your question).

We need God personally, and we also need Him collectively as a people, too. When God's people praise Him together, it is one way in which that praise is not because He needs it as much as we do.
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Old 06-27-2008, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Us non believers

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I think that every group of people who are different from any other group are despised and distrusted. Christians feel the same way, Mikeyy. If you think about it, we humans are not very good (and have never proven to be very good) at appreciating one another for our differences. Rather than building bridges to unite us we have built walls to keep us separated....whether it be over racial, cultural, religious or political differences.

I attribute it to The Fall (to answer your question).

We need God personally, and we also need Him collectively as a people, too. When God's people praise Him together, it is one way in which that praise is not because He needs it as much as we do.
Historically we are doing better at being our brothers keeper today more then ever before. I would say by percentages there are more free healthy people today then ever. Do to the charity of their fellow man.
So some of the doom and gloom is a bunch of self guilt. "We don't deserve to be loved by God" and the like. I have always treated people the way Jesus would have expected. Along with volunteerism and charity work.
So to me the idea of still not feeling adequate would drive me up a wall.
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: Us non believers

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Historically we are doing better at being our brothers keeper today more then ever before. I would say by percentages there are more free healthy people today then ever. Do to the charity of their fellow man.
So some of the doom and gloom is a bunch of self guilt. "We don't deserve to be loved by God" and the like. I have always treated people the way Jesus would have expected. Along with volunteerism and charity work.
So to me the idea of still not feeling adequate would drive me up a wall.
Okay, well, how would you answer your own question then? Your question being:
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Over 40 Years of Research Show Atheists Are Despised, Distrusted. Why do you think that is?
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:50 AM
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Default Re: Us non believers

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I thought I would start one of the oldest arguments in the world. I read recently that us non believers were given very low numbers. We are not trusted. And we are ostracized. We live with people who believe in things they have never seen. But they think we are lacking.

Over the centuries religion has been used to justify murder. It has been used to separate people as much as pull them together.

So to start the debate I will ask this question.

Why would God feel the need to be praised? If he is the creator of all why would he or she need this?

Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


Not only do I believe the above verse relates what happened to a living God as he struggled whether to "have this cup pass" from him, but it is a metaphor to help my own psyche in my own time.
There is a good and there is an evil. All of you have seen that this is true, no matter where your heart lies with issues of religion.
And I am going to worship something/someone/some idea.
The pull of evil is strong. Evil would like to have me in its grasp for evermore. And after winning me, would trample through my soul to get to its next victim. Because evil doesn't care about me personally; just the triumph to add to its power. And evil's power is in a lie that is believed.
I choose to worship good. In fact, as you say, God commands it.
Jesus was referencing such verses of the OT as: He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things, which thine eyes have seen. Deu 10:21
Does his infinite understanding of the matter perhaps foresee the need to have a straightforward commandment on this, as he sees the need for the ten commandments? If you think about it, everything the commandments speak of are dangers for our happiness and health if not our very lives. God is the only person who can protect us from the evil one, but we must be his and his alone for this to be accomplished in our life. (If you are not with me, you are against me).


Quote:
Mikeyy: Over the centuries religion has been used to justify murder. It has been used to separate people as much as pull them together.
John wrote in a letter :
Quote:
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. [1Jn 2:1]
I like to point out that it does not say Jesus Christ the religious.

*******************
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Consumption is indeed important in a free economy: particularly the freedom of consumers to buy their goods in unhampered markets. However, key to long-term economic growth is investment (savings), which is the opposite of consumption. Public policies that promote consumption — such as low interest rates — do so at the expense of savings. Less savings means less investments; an economy that does not save or invest will consume all of its resources and eventually end up bankrupt.-David Saied

Last edited by saltwn; 06-28-2008 at 04:52 AM. Reason: paragraph
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:02 AM
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Okay, well, how would you answer your own question then? Your question being:
I think it is the pack mentality of our species. We group. That's our nature. And then those outside the group we are in are always somehow in a lesser group. It doesn't matter if its religion, Nationalism, or your bowling league. Its human nature.
In this case when believers are convinced that morality comes from their religion. It only makes sense that those who don't follow their belief must be morally vacant. Or that their only playing the game and aren't really rooted.

Even though the minute I say I believe in God somehow all of that changes.
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Old 06-28-2008, 10:15 AM
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Default Re: Us non believers

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


Not only do I believe the above verse relates what happened to a living God as he struggled whether to "have this cup pass" from him, but it is a metaphor to help my own psyche in my own time.
There is a good and there is an evil. All of you have seen that this is true, no matter where your heart lies with issues of religion.
And I am going to worship something/someone/some idea.
The pull of evil is strong. Evil would like to have me in its grasp for evermore. And after winning me, would trample through my soul to get to its next victim. Because evil doesn't care about me personally; just the triumph to add to its power. And evil's power is in a lie that is believed.
I choose to worship good. In fact, as you say, God commands it.
Jesus was referencing such verses of the OT as: He is thy praise, and he is thy God, that hath done for thee these great and terrible things, which thine eyes have seen. Deu 10:21
Does his infinite understanding of the matter perhaps foresee the need to have a straightforward commandment on this, as he sees the need for the ten commandments? If you think about it, everything the commandments speak of are dangers for our happiness and health if not our very lives. God is the only person who can protect us from the evil one, but we must be his and his alone for this to be accomplished in our life. (If you are not with me, you are against me).



John wrote in a letter : I like to point out that it does not say Jesus Christ the religious.

*******************
Without religion I would read your post to say. We are given choices in life. There are bad choices and good choices. Think them over. Are you being fair to others with your choice? Are you being honest, helpful, responsible, etc. Then you follow your heart and head. Your gut.
I know that I have done it right the majority of the time. I remember when I did it wrong and it sticks with me. And then I feel guilty. No religion needed.

Now I have a uncle who is very religious. Goes to church and is a deacon in his church. On the other hand he owns a used car lot. Do you think he ever sells a car that he knows is crap. You bet he does.

Come to think of it maybe evil has a hold of him.
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Old 06-28-2008, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Us non believers

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
I think it is the pack mentality of our species. We group. That's our nature. And then those outside the group we are in are always somehow in a lesser group. It doesn't matter if its religion, Nationalism, or your bowling league. Its human nature.
In this case when believers are convinced that morality comes from their religion. It only makes sense that those who don't follow their belief must be morally vacant. Or that their only playing the game and aren't really rooted.

Even though the minute I say I believe in God somehow all of that changes.
Do you think it's possible that non-believers treat believers in the exact same way, Mikeyy? If not, there is a forum that you once frequented that I can refer you to as proof.

Do you personally feel that Christians do not trust you and ostracize you? I'm not seeing any evidence of it here, so if you feel this way then where is this happening and who is doing it?

You started the debate off asking why God would need to be praised, and now are asking why a poll reveals that atheists are despised and distrusted. As interesting as this is, I'm not seeing the connection to what you are getting at.
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Old 06-28-2008, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Us non believers

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Do you think it's possible that non-believers treat believers in the exact same way, Mikeyy? If not, there is a forum that you once frequented that I can refer you to as proof.

Do you personally feel that Christians do not trust you and ostracize you? I'm not seeing any evidence of it here, so if you feel this way then where is this happening and who is doing it?

You started the debate off asking why God would need to be praised, and now are asking why a poll reveals that atheists are despised and distrusted. As interesting as this is, I'm not seeing the connection to what you are getting at.
If you are asking if non believers have negative views about religious people. I would say that ignorance isn't based in your religious views. I have said that the people in the world that I have the most respect for by in large are religious in their own life's. But with or without religion these people would have been compelling to me. I have questions about religion. So I thought I would ask some of those questions and see if anyone has come up with a more compelling argument. Its difficult because many times you answer with scripture which isn't helpful for a non believer. It requires faith. Its a catch 22 situation. If you believe the bible has your answer. If you don't it is a useless argument.

You say "Joe climbed a mountain"
I say "How do you know he did?"
You say "Because he told me he did"
But you can't show me Joe or the mountain. You say you heard him but there was no sound. Or evidence. But you are so happy about it that you can't hardly stand it.

So where does the problem lie? Where is the disconnect? With my lack of faith?
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Old 06-28-2008, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: Us non believers

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
If you are asking if non believers have negative views about religious people. I would say that ignorance isn't based in your religious views. I have said that the people in the world that I have the most respect for by in large are religious in their own life's. But with or without religion these people would have been compelling to me. I have questions about religion. So I thought I would ask some of those questions and see if anyone has come up with a more compelling argument. Its difficult because many times you answer with scripture which isn't helpful for a non believer. It requires faith. Its a catch 22 situation. If you believe the bible has your answer. If you don't it is a useless argument.

You say "Joe climbed a mountain"
I say "How do you know he did?"
You say "Because he told me he did"
But you can't show me Joe or the mountain. You say you heard him but there was no sound. Or evidence. But you are so happy about it that you can't hardly stand it.

So where does the problem lie? Where is the disconnect? With my lack of faith?
I absolutely agree with you about the disconnect. I guess I was just confused as to what exactly your point to this thread was, because it seems to me to be changing with your every post (I do not mean that as a putdown...I was simply looking for clarity and you have given it to me).

I have seen the way a lot of Christians handle these kinds of discussions, and I have to admit that most of the time they leave a lot to be desired. You are right, too often we Christians answer by quoting Scripture verses that are not helpful to a non-believer. I wonder if possibly this "language barrier" on both sides is what causes the division between the two. I've seen more than a few instances of people becoming frustrated when one person speaks broken English and is having a difficult time conveying his message. Could this be the same problem that exists between Christians and non- believers?

For me, it is like this:

My whole life I was blind and wanted to be able to see. One day, while at church Jesus came right up to me, rubbed some earth on my eyes and from that time on I have been able to see! Now, there have been some who have said of me that I was never actually blind in the first place, and others who have said that I really cannot see now. I have no way of proving either to anybody, nor do I feel it is my duty to do so. The best I can do is walk in the Light and hope that my life will as a result reflect that Light and convince others of it. In other words, the only proof I can offer you is the "living proof" of my walking in obediance to that which I say I believe.

That probably doesn't help much, does it?
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