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Religion & Philosophy Discuss A thought about religion at the General Discussion; Whatever one thinks of God, there is no way iin Hell the universe came about without an intelligent force acting ...

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Old 03-16-2014, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: A thought about religion

Whatever one thinks of God, there is no way iin Hell the universe came about without an intelligent force acting on the void, if there was a void, that is.
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Old 03-21-2014, 07:44 PM
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Post Re: A thought about religion

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Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
Whatever one thinks of God, there is no way iin Hell the universe came about without an intelligent force acting on the void, if there was a void, that is.
Whatever one thinks of God, there is no way iin Hell that God came about without an intelligent force acting on the God, if there is a God, that is.


The obvious downfall of Manitou's approach is asking "Who made the Maker?"
Oh wait. Let me guess.
THAT you assume got here without any outside force upon it...
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Old 03-21-2014, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: A thought about religion

When you get to the beginning, when all was nothing and there was no universe......there is as much to support a belief in spontaneous combustion as there is to profess intelligent design.

M theory actually supports the concept that we, and all we perceive as our reality, may be nothing more that a momentary thought in a cosmic entity


It is simply logical.
Ya'll are welcome to prove me wrong.
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Old 03-21-2014, 11:54 PM
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Post Re: A thought about religion

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
When you get to the beginning, when all was nothing and there was no universe......there is as much to support a belief in spontaneous combustion as there is to profess intelligent design.
To refer to the big bang as "spontaneous combustion" is a ridiculous misrepresentation of the evidence supporting the theory.
But that's how it works with religion trying to compete with science...

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
M theory actually supports the concept that we, and all we perceive as our reality, may be nothing more that a momentary thought in a cosmic entity
It is simply logical.
Ya'll are welcome to prove me wrong.
Insisting other need to prove you wrong ...
... when you have provided no evidence of your claim in the first place is a clear logical fallacy.
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:05 AM
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Default Re: A thought about religion

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
To refer to the big bang as "spontaneous combustion" is a ridiculous misrepresentation of the evidence supporting the theory.
But that's how it works with religion trying to compete with science...


Insisting other need to prove you wrong ...
... when you have provided no evidence of your claim in the first place is a clear logical fallacy.
Sorry pal....Doesn't work that way.
Your apparent conclusion is based on a belief of an eternal Universe. Big bang actually nullifies that concept.

At first there was nothing and then, there was something. Works for either belief system.

"Science is on the frontier between knowledge and ignorance. It is (by definition sic), arrogant not to recognize what little truth(s) we actually do know."
Neil DeGrasse Tyson--- Astro physicist.

Last edited by FrancSevin; 03-22-2014 at 12:24 AM..
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:24 AM
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Default Re: A thought about religion

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Sorry pal....Doesn't work that way.
Sorry, but you're trying to argue science by throwing in alchemy.

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Your apparent conclusion is based on a belief of an eternal Universe. Big bang actually nullifies that concept.
"apparent conclusion"?
You're flailing. I haven't told you my position and you're claiming what it is and proclaiming contradictions off of things I never said.

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
"Science is on the frontier between knowledge and ignorance. It is (by definition sic), arrogant not to recognize what little truth(s) we actually do know."
Neil DeGrasse Tyson--- Astro physicist.
It would be absurd to pretend to use this quote to negate what Tyson himself understands regarding the Big Bang.
In Defense of the Big Bang | Neil deGrasse Tyson

First you try to proclaim my position, without evidence.
Now you quote Tyson with a methodology that is rebuked by Tyson's actual position.
In Defense of the Big Bang | Neil deGrasse Tyson


Like I said, religion makes a habit of misrepresenting science to pretend to disprove it. You are a prime example of that.
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Old 03-22-2014, 12:41 AM
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Default Re: A thought about religion

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Sorry, but you're trying to argue science by throwing in the Easter bunny.


"apparent conclusion"?
You're flailing. I haven't told you my position and you're claiming what it is and proclaiming contradictions off of things I never said.


It would be absurd to pretend to use this quote to negate what Tyson himself understands regarding the Big Bang.
In Defense of the Big Bang | Neil deGrasse Tyson

First you try to proclaim my position, without evidence.
Now you quote Tyson with a methodology that is rebuked by Tyson's actual position.
In Defense of the Big Bang | Neil deGrasse Tyson


Like I said, religion makes a habit of misrepresenting science to pretend to disprove it. You are a prime example of that.
No, you are missing my points. Science has the obligation to explain everything. Religion has no such obligation.

I did not proclaim your position but made an assumption, using the word "apparent" so as not to claim a fact of which I have no first hand knowledge. My assumption was based on your knee jerk, and very predictable response. Meanwhile you claim facts about me you don't know. But have assumed with a predisposed bias

I have misrepresented nothing. Tyson spoke this during a documentary about Darwinism. And his anti religious perspective was clear.

His intention was not to defend science (over religion) but define it. I simply used it in that context. I find little comfort in a dispute over science verses religion. That argument is mute except to those who must convert others to their belief system.

I am hardly episcopal but will surely stand in defense of either belief system.

Life must have purpose. Darwinism suggests that natural selection cruelly omits traits that do not support the advancement of a species. Yet it cannot explain why my cat purrs or why it lowers my blood pressure when it does so while sitting on my lap. Science can explain every aspect of those events but as yet, not why they are connected, much less have survived the cruelty of Darwin's natural selection.

So some of us believe science will explain all. Some believe there is a purpose in all things. And I believe I like it when my cat purrs on my lap and it is a gift, one of many.

But, I feel no compelling need to convince any other Human of that faith. Including you.

I will argue, that until science closes the gap between knowledge and ignorance, much of it is theory and therefore.... faith.

Last edited by FrancSevin; 03-22-2014 at 12:56 AM..
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Old 03-22-2014, 01:04 AM
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Post Re: A thought about religion

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
No, you are missing my points. Science has the obligation to explain everything. Religion has no such obligation.
Says who?
Religion only lacks such an obligation if it acknowledges it isn't in the same venue as science.
If religion tries to pretend to disprove science, then of course it needs to play by the same rules as science. Otherwise it's like trying to score a baseball game based on how many hits are made on one side vs how many times a runner reaches home base on the other...

Science has no "obligation to explain everything". Science simply examines existing evidence and providing conclusions based on evidence.
If a question exists which cannot be explained that is not a problem. Except to people like you who have no clue about science and make demands upon it which are absurd and unrealistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
I did not proclaim your position but made an assumption, using the word "apparent" so as not to claim a fact of which I have no first hand knowledge. My assumption was based on your knee jerk, and very predictable response.
You proclaimed my position with an assumption.
Doesn't refute the fact that you attempted to proclaim my position, just like you falsely tried to use a Tyson quote to an end it doesn't warrant.

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Meanwhile you claim facts about me you don't know. But have assumed with a predisposed bias
Quote me in what I did that supposedly did that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
I have misrepresented nothing. Tyson spoke this during a documentary about Darwinism.
And you tried to apply it to the big bang, didn't you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
And his anti religious perspective was clear.
It's only "anti religious" if one insists that religion supersedes science.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
His intention was not to defend science (over religion) but define it. I simply used it in that context. I find little comfort in a dispute over science verses religion. That argument is mute except to those who must convert others to their belief system.
I am hardly episcopal but will surely stand in defense of either belief system.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Life must have purpose. Darwinism ...
And now you're changing the subject.
What happened to trying to attack the big bang theory?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
... suggests that natural selection cruelly omits traits that do not support the advancement of a species. Yet it cannot explain why my cat purrs or why it lowers my blood pressure when it does so while sitting on my lap.
One of the things that is amusing about religion is that some people think the capability to provide a story to explain something is superior to admitting "we do not know yet" and leaving it at that.

But that's even bypassing the fact that you're spewing bull excrement.
You're proclaiming "natural selection cannot explain" when the truth is you probably haven't even looked to check what theories exist out there.
Why do cats purr? - Scientific American

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Science can explain every aspect of those events but as yet, not why they are connected, much less have survived the cruelty of Darwin's natural selection.
So some of us believe science will explain all.
Who believes that?
You keep tossing out claims, don't you...

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Some believe there is a purpose in all things. And I believe I like it when my cat purrs on my lap and it is a gift, one of many.
The problem here is simple.
If you believe that, that's your prerogative.

The problem comes when you try to pretend that religion somehow competes with or is superior to science...
If you want to be ignorant about scientific commentary on cats purring, that's your prerogative.
Just do the rest of us a favor and admit you don't know what science says instead of pretending to speak for it. 'mmkay?
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Old 03-22-2014, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: A thought about religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
Whatever one thinks of God, there is no way iin Hell the universe came about without an intelligent force acting on the void, if there was a void, that is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Whatever one thinks of God, there is no way iin Hell that God came about without an intelligent force acting on the God, if there is a God, that is.


The obvious downfall of Manitou's approach is asking "Who made the Maker?"
Oh wait. Let me guess.
THAT you assume got here without any outside force upon it...
It looks like you are assuming that God is finite, not infinite.

It is difficult, if maybe not impossible, for mortal people to understand the concept of infinity, where something had no beginning, and has no end.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:03 AM
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Default Elleh Is Ell Ebuoot Ooee

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Und, vheech gud vuoold thet be-a?

(Joost pleyeeng defeel's edfucete-a here-a )
Elleh's gut must ooff zee muney Emereecun Dheemmees spent oon petruleoom prudoocts. Thet is vhy zee sheeeks theenk zeey ere-a lufed by Gud, Bork Bork Bork! Boot ectooelly zeey ere-a predetury pereseetes, leeke-a ell oozeer oovners ooff munkeend's pruperty.
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