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Religion & Philosophy Discuss Fort Riley atheist soldier speaks out on lawsuit at the General Discussion; JUNCTION CITY, Kan. — Like hundreds of young men joining the Army in recent years, Jeremy Hall professes a desire ...

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Old 04-26-2008, 05:21 PM
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Post Fort Riley atheist soldier speaks out on lawsuit

JUNCTION CITY, Kan. — Like hundreds of young men joining the Army in recent years, Jeremy Hall professes a desire to serve his country while it fights terrorism.

But the short and soft-spoken specialist is at the center of a legal controversy. He has filed a lawsuit alleging he's been harassed and his constitutional rights have been violated because he doesn't believe in God. The suit names Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

"I'm not in it for cash," Hall said. "I want no one else to go what I went through."

Known as "the atheist guy," Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and _ just as severe to some soldiers _ gay, none of which, he says, is true. Hall even drove fellow soldiers to church in Iraq and paused while they prayed before meals.

"I see a name and rank and United States flag on their shoulder. That's what I believe everyone else should see," he said.

Hall, 23, was raised in a Protestant family in North Carolina and dropped out of school before earning his GED. It wasn't until after he joined the Army that he began questioning religion, eventually deciding he couldn't follow any faith.

But he feared how that would look to other soldiers.

"I was ashamed to say that I was an atheist," Hall said.

It eventually came out in Iraq in 2007, when he was in a firefight. Hall was a gunner on a Humvee, which took several bullets in its protective shield. Afterward, his commander asked whether he believed in God, Hall said.

"I said, 'No, but I believe in Plexiglas,'" Hall said. "I've never believed I was going to a happy place. You get one life. When I die, I'm worm food."

The issue came to a head when, according to Hall, a superior officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, threatened to bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq. Welborn has denied Hall's allegations.

Hall said he had had enough but feared he wouldn't get support from Welborn's superiors. He turned to Mikey Weinstein and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

Weinstein is the foundation's president and a U.S. Air Force Academy graduate. He had previously sued the Air Force for acts he said illegally imposed Christianity on students at the academy, though that case was dismissed. He calls Hall a hero.

"The average American doesn't have enough intestinal fortitude to tell someone to shut up if they are talking in a movie theater," Weinstein said. "You know how hard it is to take on your chain of command? This isn't the shift manager at KFC."

Hall was in Qatar when the lawsuit was filed on Sept. 18 in federal court in Kansas City, Kan. Other soldiers learned of it and he feared for his own safety. Once, Hall said, a group of soldiers followed him, harassing him, but no one did anything to make it stop.

FOXNews.com - Fort Riley atheist soldier speaks out on lawsuit - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News

The fact that this goes on in this day and age boggles my mind.
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:17 AM
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Default Re: Fort Riley atheist soldier speaks out on lawsuit

I don't see anything more than if this were a Red Sox fan living in Yankee country...
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Old 04-27-2008, 05:28 AM
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Default Re: Fort Riley atheist soldier speaks out on lawsuit

Another story on it which has two extra points...

Military probes atheist GI’s harassment claims

Quote:
Military officials in Iraq are investigating allegations that an Army specialist is being harassed for being an atheist but said Saturday that they cannot find an officer the soldier has named in a federal lawsuit.

Spc. Jeremy Hall and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation filed a lawsuit against Maj. Paul Welborne and Defense Secretary Robert Gates in U.S. District Court in Kansas City, Kansas, this past week. It alleges that Welborne threatened to pursue military charges against Hall and to block his reenlistment because he was trying to hold a meeting of atheists and non-Christians in Iraq.

The suit also alleges that Gates permits a military culture in which officers are encouraged to pressure soldiers to adopt and espouse fundamentalist Christian beliefs.

On Friday, Mikey Weinstein, the foundation's founder and president, released to The Associated Press copies of e-mails from Hall in which the soldier said he had been harassed and threatened on blogs with being killed by friendly fire for filing the lawsuit.

Lt. Col. James Hutton, a spokesman for the U.S.-led multinational force in Iraq, said in a statement from Iraq on Saturday that the Army was investigating Hall's situation. But he added: "Several media reports list a person named Maj. Paul Welborne as having been involved in this situation. To date, we have not located any soldier by that name."

In responding to the lawsuit, a Pentagon spokesman said the military does value and respect religious freedoms, but that accommodating religious practices should not interfere with unit cohesion, readiness, standards or discipline.

Hall, who is serving with the 97th Military Police Battalion out of Fort Riley, Kan., has been in Iraq since 2006, on his second tour.
If the threats are real, those should be punished...But a lawsuit wouldn't be needed...Just as if your neighbor was issuing threats...

But my question is this...

"Was he ESPOUSING anti-religious rhetoric at any time?"...Of course, he wants to come across as being the "low-key guy" that was being harrassed with no provocation, but I'm wondering if that's actually true...If it is, he has a valid point...

But I'm doubtful due to this...

Quote:
The lawsuit names Gates as a defendant and alleges he permits a culture that sanctions activities by Christian organizations, including providing personnel and equipment.

It also says the military permits proselytizing by soldiers, tolerates anti-Semitism, placing of religious symbols on military equipment and allows the use of military e-mail accounts to send religious rhetoric.
If this lawsuit was about harrassment, he would've never included these in his lawsuit...

Which is making him out to be right up there with people who want "In God We Trust" off of currency...In other words, he's on a mission he instigated knowing he'll be harrassed for speaking out and is now using that as a shield...

And I'm pretty sure we'd all agree that would "interfere with unit cohesion, readiness, standards or discipline"...
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Old 04-27-2008, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Fort Riley atheist soldier speaks out on lawsuit

My Uncle Buddy was a fox hole convert.
There have been atheists since there have been people.
I think this soldier should have the right to believe little green Martians came to earth and seeded the Neanderthal women if that's his bag. Free from harassment for it too.
But I also believe it is O.K. for transportation and what-not to be provided by military to facilitate Christian or Jewish or Muslim worship. If you ask a guy (or gal) to go into combat, they should be given the opportunity to kiss the rabbit's foot or whatever they think will make them a better soldier.
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Old 04-27-2008, 08:56 PM
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Post Re: Fort Riley atheist soldier speaks out on lawsuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
I don't see anything more than if this were a Red Sox fan living in Yankee country...
I didn't realize you were fricken blind...
Hall wrote in a series of e-mails to Weinstein that he feared for his safety after being "hallchecked" — being shoved against the wall in a hallway — by fellow soldiers who objected to his lawsuit. Bloggers on the Internet have also referred to "fragging" Hall, or killing him by friendly fire.
I guess this sort of behavior is something you wouldn't have a problem with in the military?

And I had no idea that the military was to be considered as "Yankee country"?
I had thought that religious equality was to be enforced there as well.
Or maybe we should segregate our soldiers according to religious beliefs, like black Baptists and white Lutherans.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd
If the threats are real, those should be punished...But a lawsuit wouldn't be needed...Just as if your neighbor was issuing threats...

If the police (or in this case the military) refuse to do anything about it, then the lawsuit is needed.
If the military had kept this in line, there wouldn't be any need.
But as the article states: "Weinstein said Saturday that the issue was not locating Welborne, noting the incidents alleged in the lawsuit occurred in July and August and the major may have left Iraq since then. Instead, he said, the military must find the soldiers who are threatening Hall and prosecute them under military law."


Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd
But my question is this...
"Was he ESPOUSING anti-religious rhetoric at any time?"...
Oh that's just brilliant.
Ignore the harassment this guy IS going through, and make a question that paints him as an agressor without any evidence whatsoever.


Do you work for Fox news per chance?


Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd
If this lawsuit was about harrassment, he would've never included these in his lawsuit...
It is possible to name multiple offenses in one law-suit.
From the other article, it sounds like some people who do focus on such misbehavior from the military are aiding the soldier, and thus the above doesn't surprise me.

There is no logical conclusion that leads to a preclusion of harassment based on other aspects in the lawsuit....


Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd
Which is making him out to be right up there with people who want "In God We Trust" off of currency...In other words, he's on a mission he instigated knowing he'll be harrassed for speaking out and is now using that as a shield...
And I'm pretty sure we'd all agree that would "interfere with unit cohesion, readiness, standards or discipline"...
I am thoroughly amused at how an article regarding HARASSMENT against an ATHEIST is turned into a pretense of atheist aggression.
Positively amazing!

How many logical leaps (based on absolutely NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER) did it take you to conclude the above?


Maybe we should just chalk up your above description to a Red Sox fan living in Yankee country?
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