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Religion & Philosophy Discuss Wright breaks silence, says attacks 'unfair' at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by Mikeyy Spencer say's Either Obama is a saint who "suffered" through 20 years of Rev Wright's racist ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-25-2008, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: Wright breaks silence, says attacks 'unfair'

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Spencer say's Either Obama is a saint who "suffered" through 20 years of Rev Wright's racist anti-white,anti-American rhetoric and only when it became "public" denounced Wright's words. Or..there is "something" more to it.

There is a third option. Maybe Wright only said those things a couple of times. And like a crazy uncle goes off on some silly tangent. We roll our eyes and move on. Why do we want to judge a mans entire life through the prism of a 24 media video loop? I won't do it. After reading about Wrights real life I won't play this gotcha crap.
You may address me directly,hey..we are friends arnt we? Anyway..I have a hard time believing that the Rev Wright only made racist anti-American comments only "twice" in 20 years.Were talking 1,040 sermons !!! Also,people are not judging Obama's "entire" life,some of us are only questioning his judgement in respect to racial matters and his "silence" until this was exposed.For you,this may indeed sound trivial and I respect that. For others,even people who once supported Obama,there is cause for concern.Would Obama or his "surragets" go after Hillary if we learned that she was until... "recently" ...attending David Duke's meetings ans speaches?

YOU BET THEY WOULD!
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Old 04-25-2008, 09:46 PM
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Default Re: Wright breaks silence, says attacks 'unfair'

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You may address me directly,hey..we are friends arnt we? Anyway..I have a hard time believing that the Rev Wright only made racist anti-American comments only "twice" in 20 years.Were talking 1,040 sermons !!! Also,people are not judging Obama's "entire" life,some of us are only questioning his judgement in respect to racial matters and his "silence" until this was exposed.For you,this may indeed sound trivial and I respect that. For others,even people who once supported Obama,there is cause for concern.Would Obama or his "surragets" go after Hillary if we learned that she was until... "recently" ...attending David Duke's meetings ans speaches?

YOU BET THEY WOULD!
Here is the bottom line for me. I don't think Obama believes all of the things Wright has said. In fact he explained his own view pretty well. What else can he do about it now. If you back up and look at the big picture people don't blame you for the remarks of people you know. Especially after you have condemned them. I will say this. I don't think the general public is as fired up about this story as the press claims they are. And like the exit polls showed in Pa. people are not turning on Obama over this story. But give the press time. They won't stop until Obama disses Wright while burning his picture in effegy. Anyone notice there is a war going on. My kid will get orders in a few weeks.
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Wright breaks silence, says attacks 'unfair'

Well I didn't mean to sound dismissive. I just think Obama has done all he can do about it. And for those who can't let it go. I don't really see why there is a different standard for McCain. If he embarasses people who say crazy shit for votes. Why would the standard be different for Barack. Consider if you will that Obama is a politician. He wants to represent the south side of Chicago. Well if you want that job you attend that church. Thats the way politics work. Its the same as embarassing Falwell, Robertson, Graham or Hagge for votes. You are avoiding the message to attract the messengers following.
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Wright breaks silence, says attacks 'unfair'

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Here is the bottom line for me. I don't think Obama believes all of the things Wright has said. In fact he explained his own view pretty well. What else can he do about it now. If you back up and look at the big picture people don't blame you for the remarks of people you know. Especially after you have condemned them. I will say this. I don't think the general public is as fired up about this story as the press claims they are. And like the exit polls showed in Pa. people are not turning on Obama over this story. But give the press time. They won't stop until Obama disses Wright while burning his picture in effegy. Anyone notice there is a war going on. My kid will get orders in a few weeks.
So you and I and "others" will just have to agree to disagree on this stories "relevance" in November. I may end up voting for Obama,yes..it's possible.I have various concerns with all the candidates not just one of them.Are other issues more important than the Wright controversy? Of course they are but again..elections are won and lost in the magins.This story may have some effect on "Independents" and "Obmakins",they are Republicans who are for Obama. Can he afford to lose people from these groups? NO. A black candidate has enough riding against him without these hit pieces but they WILL continue as McCain will soon find out.Past associations "may" seem trivial to some but not all. Obama has already and "suddenly" distanced himself from Wright's comments. If Obama gets the nomination,will McCain and his surrogates drop this story? Not in your life...it will be good cop bad cop all the way to November. McCain's surrogates will attack Obama and he will distance himself from the attacks..We've all seen this type of thing before,it's poltics 101.I can't believe people when they say past associations don't matter unless they mean "their" candidates past associations don't matter. What about the "opposing" candidate's past associations? Obama is smart but not that smart..he has his surrogates do the attacking and likes to appear above the Frey but "who" is he really fooling? This is not a new political strategy.

The only "changes" I've seen in politics are the names,ethnicity and gender of the candidates..

We will wait a long time before candidates refuse to make an issue out of past associations.Hillary..a fellow Democrat..is responsible for most of these attacks.Wait till Obama gets the nomination,the Republicans will prove even more aggressive than Hillary,they will be relentless.
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: Wright breaks silence, says attacks 'unfair'

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So you and I and "others" will just have to agree to disagree on this stories "relevance" in November. I may end up voting for Obama,yes..it's possible.I have various concerns with all the candidates not just one of them.Are other issues more important than the Wright controversy? Of course they are but again..elections are won and lost in the magins.This story may have some effect on "Independents" and "Obmakins",they are Republicans who are for Obama. Can he afford to lose people from these groups? NO. A black candidate has enough riding against him without these hit pieces but they WILL continue as McCain will soon find out.Past associations "may" seem trivial to some but not all. Obama has already and "suddenly" distanced himself from Wright's comments. If Obama gets the nomination,will McCain and his surrogates drop this story? Not in your life...it will be good cop bad cop all the way to November. McCain's surrogates will attack Obama and he will distance himself from the attacks..We've all seen this type of thing before,it's poltics 101.I can't believe people when they say past associations don't matter unless they mean "their" candidates past associations don't matter. What about the "opposing" candidate's past associations? Obama is smart but not that smart..he has his surrogates do the attacking and likes to appear above the Frey but "who" is he really fooling? This is not a new political strategy.

The only "changes" I've seen in politics are the names,ethnicity and gender of the candidates..

We will wait a long time before candidates refuse to make an issue out of past associations.Hillary..a fellow Democrat..is responsible for most of these attacks.Wait till Obama gets the nomination,the Republicans will prove even more aggressive than Hillary,they will be relentless.
I agree the politics of it are not good. But like I said before, what can he do about it but what he did. He condemned them in the strongest terms. He did all of the things the unwritten rules call for regarding this except condemn the man himself. Your right about how it plays politically. But again like we talked about before. There is a new paradigm playing out here. People don't seem to be as easliy swayed as they were. They see phoney issues a little easier then they used to. At least thats what I am always hoping for. And BTW I was just thinking. I still don't know who I will vote for.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-26-2008, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: Wright breaks silence, says attacks 'unfair'

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I agree the politics of it are not good. But like I said before, what can he do about it but what he did. He condemned them in the strongest terms. He did all of the things the unwritten rules call for regarding this except condemn the man himself. Your right about how it plays politically. But again like we talked about before. There is a new paradigm playing out here. People don't seem to be as easliy swayed as they were. They see phoney issues a little easier then they used to. At least thats what I am always hoping for. And BTW I was just thinking. I still don't know who I will vote for.
Agreed...the paradigm is beginning to change but I along with others,do have some concerns with "any" candidates past associations.Especially an inexperienced candidate who has no long standing track record! Considering this..perhaps that is "why" Obama's past associations are so heavily scrutinized.I took a lot of heat "defending" Obama over the past few months. People who were once "against" Obama pointed out that we knew little about him beyond his rhetoric.Now that we are beginning to gain some insight as to his past associations,some now say it's too much insight! They simply believe these past associations are trivial and that they give no insight as to the candidates judgement..some of us disagree.

It's hard for a candidate to have it both ways...the novelty and excitement of running as an unknown and then having past associations used against him.

I remain concerned with Wright's message and they who faithfully listen to his message..Everyone is different,some have the ability to listen to a minister beat the racist anti American mantra and "disassociate" it. I cannot do that...if my priest continually or even semi annually bashed gays,I would seek another parish and I'm not gay.People who can disassociate this racist anti-American rhetoric have a "talent" that I do not seek nor desire.This may or may not be a "trivial" issue to all concerned.I guess it depends on the voter and their perception of the issues Wright addresed.Hillary has a point,Obama has charisma but in the end is he truly "viable"? Will we learn even more things about Obama that may prove to be disturbing?..time will tell. One thing I do know is that Obama did very poorly in the last debate. His frustration showed,perhaps rightfully so.. but this is "mild" compared the the attacks he will face if he is the nomineee.Carisma does matter..JFK used it very effectively but he could also "stand and deliver" a good counter punch and not "just whine" about the rhetorical attacks.

Time will tell if Obama has more than rhetoric and charisma.Hillary seems to handle these attacks with far more stamina. The Republicans have had decades to rumble through her baggage. For the most part..she has been vetted but with Obama..thay have only just begun. Obama can and will survive this but if more damaging material comes along, he may be no more viable than Hillary,perhaps even less viable! This Rev Wright stuff is "tame"...it's also going to get very ugly for McCain after June.Attacks will become the norm not the exception.Perhaps people will ignore these attacks and associations and get down to policy issues. I would like to see policy take the point but I don't believe we have changed that much on either side of the aisle.Will Obama's supporters give McCain a free pass on his corporate dealings and associations? It will take more than HOPE to accomplish that.

At this point..I'm not supporting anyone but I am listening to all the candidates..
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