all we have are theories as far as the beginning of the world goes.

All a theory is is an idea. A theory IS a possibility. Typically science takes a theory and then tries to prove or disprove it. However, until it is proven(or disproven) it is just one possibility.

Take the big bang theory. There was nothing, a vacuum, then it exploded and the universe was there. What exploded? If there is nothing, then nothing is volatile to make the explosion.

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http://www.marchforbabies.com/chuck725 ... helping babies born prematurely and with birth defects

No. To be labelled as a "theory" requires much more than that. Evidence. Proof.
Again, you're trying to compare Stephen Hawking to Mike Tyson, and insist that they "both have ideas on how to fight".
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/rel...html#post23036


Evolution? Proven.

Intelligent Design? Can't be proven.
It has no precepts that people can independently test to "prove" or "disprove".
That is one of the reasons it is NOT SCIENCE.


This argument is the "I am taking my limited understanding of the subject, and insisting on complications and contradictions based on my limited understanding" approach.

It's like saying "Cutting people hurts them, so obviously modern science can't "help" people when they operate on them".

If you're truly interested in understanding, then read and learn.
The very first sentence in the Wikipedia article explains the error you are making. There was SOMETHING there....

Extrapolation of the expansion of the universe backwards in time using general relativity yields an infinite density and temperature at a finite time in the past.[20] This singularity signals the breakdown of general relativity. How closely we can extrapolate towards the singularity is debated—certainly not earlier than the Planck epoch. The early hot, dense phase is itself referred to as "the Big Bang",[21] and is considered the "birth" of our universe.

Big Bang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then there is no science about how it all started... because there is no way to prove it short of creating another universe out of nothing...

Ok, I am admittedly not as smart as many of the people here. So if anyone would like to break that down to English I would greatly appreciate it. I am not trying to knock anything about it... I can't... I really don't get it. To me it looks like when KeBap used to use big words to say simple things.

It looks to me like there was some hot stuff that exploded and the universe started... it doesn't seem to show where that stuff came from. I guess the reason that I do not completely reject the idea of at least a small amount of ID is because there is no answer to where the original stuff came from.

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some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant

http://www.marchforbabies.com/chuck725 ... helping babies born prematurely and with birth defects

Faith - - firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

Theory - - the analysis of a set of facts in relation to one another.

Since believers "believe" that faith is a "requirement" instituted by God himself and said God shows no indication of dropping said requirement..faith for the believer shall continue to trump theory.Through "faith" I believe in intelligent design.I need not show scientific proof to support my belief,that's the beauty of faith,it has a strong base alloy of trust.Until science can "prove" conclusively that ID never occurred and they won't..my faith remains.I believe faith is a gift that is never acquired by scientific analysis for then it would no longer be faith,it would become a scientific conclusion.For whatever reason,the creator requires faith,I believe it has something to do with trust.If there is a creator,trust seems like a "reasonable" requirement no? I believe the creator becomes weary of forever being put to some test designed by mankind.For some,there will never be enough proof and he knows this.

If at the end of time my faith/trust is proven to be erroneous then I have lost nothing. If my faith/trust is proven to be correct,I've gained everything!

I will stick with my simple faith,it's a gift not a scientific conclusion.They who "demand" proof will not be disapointed,it will come at a time when their newly found belief based on facts will do them little good.

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"Destiny must be shaped and not left to mere chance."..Spencer Collins

And there's the rub.
Science won't "prove" that at all. And when some individuals make CLAIMS regarding such "proof" (claiming that ID has been "proven" not to have happened), they are going well and beyond real proof. Going well and beyond real science.

To me, real science would contently admit that it is entirely possible that both ID and evolution existed. Surely people can understand that evolution existing in some examples does not rule out the possibility of divine intervention in other areas.
Or possible divine intervention included with evolution examples.

It just plain CANNOT be ruled out.

I feel like you just unlocked repressed memories...

This is exactly what I meant ... you just said it better

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http://www.marchforbabies.com/chuck725 ... helping babies born prematurely and with birth defects

I don't know if I'll get around to seeing this movie or not. I have always been fascinated by archeology and human development. Also I used to love to read about the Greeks who may not have invented every form of study, but certainly brought scholarship to a new level of dignity.

I already mentioned how I liked reading encyclopedias and "documentary" type works while still a youngster. I devoured H.G.Wells the Decent of Man. Years later was intrigued buy a book called the Decent of Woman-don't recall who
wrote it. Also I was introduced to a spiritual life by my guardians. Baptist Sunday school, catechism (my grandparents were Catholic). Jewish synagogue (only once with an agnostic aunt who was doing her own research).
So we are what we eat as Tiny Tim so aptly put it. or was it his wife miss whats-her-name who said it-anyhow...Here's what I think about creation vs evolution within seemingly unrelated topics, but bear with me :

Back when the Greeks invented science, through philosophy, subjects of study were not compartmentalized as they are today. One result was cross over ideas. They could think of a problem in terms we don't today because we are only studying math or religion or psychology within the narrowest confines of that pursuit.

The Greeks were very smart people.

Before they could see them, the Greeks discovered some planets through the disciplines known as mathematics and physics.

They refined or invented democracy.

The simplest explanation of their entire existence was to always question question question.

They came up with the idea that there are two things in the world ultimately. They are order and chaos. It was also surmised that for every action there is a consequence. The universe was once in chaos-then it became ordered.

But I asked the question-ordered for whom? If there was a void and the void was getting along fine being a void-why did it need to take shape?
Man. He would not be able to find his way in a dark formless void. So before man there had to be first time and space. These are also neat ways for man to know where he is literally and relate to his world.
Catchy idea, huh?
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There is an old theory-much older than the Greeks. Some think it came from Africa. Some think it came from the near east. It goes like this: There is an immortal and there is a mortal. Everything that is in heaven (or the celestial plain or whatever) has a copy on earth. The difference is everything in heaven will go on forever. Everything mortal or terrestrial will eventually decay.
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In a play, Plato has one of his characters recite some stuff about time and space and another guy talks about spirituality. According to their philosophy (and don't forget, it was philosophy that was the basis for ALL science), there needed to be a doorway or bridge from the immortal to the mortal. A doorway that could exist in heaven and earth simultaneously, because it was of both.
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O.K. that's some food for thought. But here is the meat of the matter.
The Greeks said Chaos vs Order and immortality vs mortality which they in time realized meant truth vs lie and light vs darkness. Evil vs Good.
The orientals said there has to be a Ying and a Yang (balance/order). The Native American and the African tribesman said there are good and there are evil spirits.
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Here's a commercial break for those who are drowsy:
Billy Graham was on his way to a meeting in China after it became more open. He passed an old man going up hill on foot- a very ancient looking fellow. On the way back Graham and his interpreter companion passed the old man still making his way to wherever he was going. Billy felt he should witness to this person and felt ashamed he was in such a hurry the first time he almost missed the opportunity. Well he told him through the college student interpreter the short version of creation and witnessed about Christ as the messiah. Before the little recitation was over the old man had tears rolling down his cheeks. He told them he had always known there was "someone" and he had often talked to him in his heart. He was thankful because now he knew "his" name.
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Now on with the show......
There was Neanderthal struggling in the rain naked. He had a sixth sense so that the rest of his dumb brain could be compensated for. It took him a long time just to decide a cave might be better than a tree.
Cro Magnun Man (modern man) arose poof! In the northern central regions of Africa (so says the Britannica). At rocket speed he obtains fire , the wheel, and begins to make his own tools and take an interest in agriculture...
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Now that DNA has been mapped we find we did not "descend" from Neanderthal but he was a "cousin" much like the rabbit , cat and skunk are related. And the ape and the chimps are our cousins also.
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Darwin did the same thing Captain John Smith and Thomas Jefferson did. He took notes on the flora and fauna of a certain region. No doubt they contributed considerably to our understanding of biology.
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But it is the unseen that is more real than the seen. Look at biology itself. Everything is built of some microscopic substance. Now we are told there are even smaller substances that function in those molecule and atom "universes"!
We have faith in the unseen.
We have "faith" our planet will not careen off its course tomorrow. We have "faith" a seed will grow when we plant.
It is love and hate (abstracts) that are the cohesive or cutting elements in world affairs.
It is the will to use a weapon or disperse favors-NOT the weapon itself or the money- that creates or destroys.
Seeing a pattern here? I certainly hope so. Whew!
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As Gandhi said (paraphrasing) when asked why he believed in God,
"The very order of the universe working in such a precise manner."
The Greek philosophers proved through philosophy / reasoning, that there was a creator who got things going. They did not specify that it was Allah or Got or Aunk or what the being did after that. But an intelligent "entity" if you will started the ball rolling.

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Excellent!...

Absolute genius...

That is what scientists who discount religion don't understand...

OF COURSE, they do it themselves every single day...

Scientists...with 30 years in the field, 75 doctorates, Nobel prizes, and a 100% totally sane mind will say something like "I believe there's life on other planets" without ONE iota of evidence or history to show for it...

Now is that wrong?...Absolutely not...

But it IS nothing more than a belief...which is the EXACT SAME LOGIC used for Intelligent Design...

But that scintist will get away with it because there's no "God" attached to it, which is the secular's worse enemy...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

I love it when people call me a genius.
Unfortunately that could only take place between 2 and four in the morning Brain cells have their only spurt of energy.

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Salty

THANKSGIVING MENUS AND TIPS

A GREAT PLACE TO SHOP