'Do atheists have a sexual harassment problem?'

Joe Shoe · #1 (**permalink**) 07-14-2012, 12:47 PM

Quote:

"Online forums have crackled with charges of sexism in TAM’s leadership and calls for the ouster of D.J. Grothe, the male president of the James Randi Educational Foundation, TAM’s organizer. In June, Rebecca Watson, a skeptic blogger and speaker, canceled her TAM appearance because, she said on her blog, she does “not feel welcome or safe.”

Other nontheists -- both male and female -- have shared stories of unwanted sexual attention at nontheist gatherings, including propositions for sex and unwelcome touching. Chatter has ranged from calls for more women to attend nontheist events to personal attacks on prominent female skeptics for discussing harassment. Meanwhile, two more skeptic/feminist bloggers announced they will not attend TAM."

More at Religion News Service | Culture | Gender & Sexuality | Do atheists have a sexual harassment problem?

While no one here is arguing causality here, this article is notable because it is certainly not uncommon for anti-theists to intentionally associate things like misogyny with religion. This article helps show that problems like this can happen with any group of people, even self-described atheists.

saltwn · #2 (**permalink**) 07-14-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shoe

More at Religion News Service | Culture | Gender & Sexuality | Do atheists have a sexual harassment problem?

While no one here is arguing causality here, this article is notable because it is certainly not uncommon for anti-theists to intentionally associate things like misogyny with religion. This article helps show that problems like this can happen with any group of people, even self-described atheists.

depends on how young or vulnerable you appear. happens in all groups.

mlurp · #3 (**permalink**) 08-05-2012, 12:42 PM

Gee were the portion you posted that unconvincing, that all the reply you got was about your age and it happens in all groups?

I quote, "Online forums have crackled with charges of sexism in TAM’s leadership and calls for the ouster of D.J. Grothe, end of quote.

And I would bet these other forums might have a larger Left wing membership.

Yet here it is brushed aside. And I would like to say NOT all groups do this, so to allude that this type of thing is in all types of groups is false.

Yet I don't care to say more about it, as my 2 cents is posted.

foundit66 · #4 (**permalink**) 08-05-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shoe

More at Religion News Service | Culture | Gender & Sexuality | Do atheists have a sexual harassment problem?

While no one here is arguing causality here, this article is notable because it is certainly not uncommon for anti-theists to intentionally associate things like misogyny with religion.

Do you need a laundry list of bible quotes espousing misogyny to validate that recognition?
Or perhaps you were trying to assert that Islam doesn't have a serious problem with misogyny?

Recognizing that some religions have serious problems with their text dogma or current applications is something easily defendable.
Simply observing the fact that some people "intentionally associate" is a poor cop-out for giving an opinion as to whether an association is justified or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shoe

This article helps show that problems like this can happen with any group of people, even self-described atheists.

This article is poorly written.
There's no substantial demonstration of anything there. There could be an issue, or it could be nothing.
Does it fall under the extreme of the Catholic hierarchy protecting child molestors?
Or is it on the other end of the spectrum where some colleges discuss having written documentation before "consenting" sexual interaction can occur?

The article lacks any intelligible points to make such a distinction. It talks about "Online forums have crackled with charges of sexism", but anonymous people behind computer screens making claims is hardly proof of anything.
We have no idea if this means an entire forum talking about documented charges, or one thread with three people talking about what a friend of a friend heard said...

I can't help but wonder what the heck actually happened regarding this accounting:

Last year, at another skeptic conference, Watson said she was approached late at night in an elevator by a man she believed was seeking sex.

????
Was this "man" even part of the conference?
She "believes" he was seeking sex? What does that actually mean?
Did he ask to pay her $100 for coming back to his room? Or did he simply say that she had pretty eyes...

We have no idea.

Even in the portion that talks about something that could be more concrete for an investigation leaves out obvious details.

This year, TAM has hired an outside consultant to deal with harassment incidents. And TAM is notable among nontheist conferences in that roughly half of its speakers are women, including keynote speaker Carol Tavris, a social psychologist.

Name of outside consultant (group?)???

I think one of the more interesting points comes in the comments section...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Melody Hensley

Women in the atheist movement are not saying that sexual harassment is greater at atheist conferences, but that it should be handled better when it does happen. We want our conferences, which have been largely male dominated, to be safe and welcoming places for women. I believe we are moving in the right direction.
- Melody Hensley
Women in Secularism, Organizer

Sometimes, people write articles with a question that the author doesn't even intend to honestly answer.
Having an article admit that sexual harassment is no worse in atheist conferences isn't interesting.
An article that raises the QUESTION as to whether it is worse is something more interesting...
... if not boorishly mundane in its obscuring of the truth.

Oftencold · #5 (**permalink**) 08-05-2012, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

depends on how young or vulnerable you appear. happens in all groups.

And if you're a girl with a magnificent figure too. Ugliness is the ultimate defense against sexual harassment.

rivrrat · #6 (**permalink**) 08-05-2012, 09:44 PM

unwanted sexual attention (something nearly every single ****ing woman has experienced at some point in their lives) isn't misogyny. And, it goes without saying that it happens in every group of people. It happens with people, period.

saltwn · #7 (**permalink**) 08-06-2012, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oftencold

And if you're a girl with a magnificent figure too. Ugliness is the ultimate defense against sexual harassmentaa.

I disagree. Sometimes people become obsessed with others I would never find beautiful physically at all.
Stalkers and controlling types usually go for the path of least resistance.

Joe Shoe · #8 (**permalink**) 08-09-2012, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foundit66

Do you need a laundry list of bible quotes espousing misogyny to validate that recognition?
Or perhaps you were trying to assert that Islam doesn't have a serious problem with misogyny?

Recognizing that some religions have serious problems with their text dogma or current applications is something easily defendable.
Simply observing the fact that some people "intentionally associate" is a poor cop-out for giving an opinion as to whether an association is justified or not.

This article is poorly written.
There's no substantial demonstration of anything there. There could be an issue, or it could be nothing.
Does it fall under the extreme of the Catholic hierarchy protecting child molestors?
Or is it on the other end of the spectrum where some colleges discuss having written documentation before "consenting" sexual interaction can occur?

The article lacks any intelligible points to make such a distinction. It talks about "Online forums have crackled with charges of sexism", but anonymous people behind computer screens making claims is hardly proof of anything.
We have no idea if this means an entire forum talking about documented charges, or one thread with three people talking about what a friend of a friend heard said...

I can't help but wonder what the heck actually happened regarding this accounting:

Last year, at another skeptic conference, Watson said she was approached late at night in an elevator by a man she believed was seeking sex.

????
Was this "man" even part of the conference?
She "believes" he was seeking sex? What does that actually mean?
Did he ask to pay her $100 for coming back to his room? Or did he simply say that she had pretty eyes...

We have no idea.

Even in the portion that talks about something that could be more concrete for an investigation leaves out obvious details.

This year, TAM has hired an outside consultant to deal with harassment incidents. And TAM is notable among nontheist conferences in that roughly half of its speakers are women, including keynote speaker Carol Tavris, a social psychologist.

Name of outside consultant (group?)???

I think one of the more interesting points comes in the comments section...

Sometimes, people write articles with a question that the author doesn't even intend to honestly answer.
Having an article admit that sexual harassment is no worse in atheist conferences isn't interesting.
An article that raises the QUESTION as to whether it is worse is something more interesting...
... if not boorishly mundane in its obscuring of the truth.

The point is that it helps to demonstrate it can and does happen anywhere, not necessarily more-so with religion. Don't pretend misogyny isn't a popular accusation for anti-theists to make against religious people. And if those anti-theists were truly objective, they would base such accusations ONLY on cases as they play out rather than "bible quotes" since actual EVENTS are the only thing that matters in terms of the law.

foundit66 · #9 (**permalink**) 08-09-2012, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shoe

The point is that it helps to demonstrate it can and does happen anywhere, not necessarily more-so with religion.

I refer to the article title, which clearly contradicts your claim.

But I understand you can't defend your own article, so let's move on to where you want to change the subject to which is not what your article was about...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shoe

Don't pretend misogyny isn't a popular accusation for anti-theists to make against religious people.

Earth to language comprehension.
I POINTED OUT WHY it is observed in some religions.

Recognizing I did point that out, it is obvious that I am not pretending it isn't an accusation that is leveled against religions...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Shoe

And if those anti-theists were truly objective, they would base such accusations ONLY on cases as they play out rather than "bible quotes" since actual EVENTS are the only thing that matters in terms of the law.

Riddle me this...
How often do Christians renounce the misogynist bible passages as invalid and wrong?

I consider that as fairly significant when they don't.

Also, I find it amusing how some Christians insist that the bible is the immutable word of God.
I find it amusing how some Christians insist that the passages on gays are immutable and cannot be ignored, but they ignore the passages on misogyny if it suits them.

Mikeyy · #10 (**permalink**) 08-10-2012, 10:06 AM

I would think it would be the opposite. Athiests are more honest and educated than religious people as a group. Levels of honesty and education are directly related to behavior.

I am athiest but I am open to sexual harassment. Depends on the girl though. I have standards.

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