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Religion & Philosophy Discuss Jesus was a non-violent leftist at the General Discussion; I really get sick of people trashing other religions, while claiming their own is all that and a bucket of ...

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Old 01-25-2012, 10:18 PM
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Default Jesus was a non-violent leftist

I really get sick of people trashing other religions, while claiming their own is all that and a bucket of chicken. But what gets really twisted, is how they can support the most inhuman actions on the planet and turn around and say they are person's of faith.

Modern day Christianity lost Jesus a long time ago. And when I see these so-called Christian's support the Iraq/Afghanistan wars, trash Islam, defend Israeli atrocities against the Palestinian's, tell the homeless to get a job, it's clear to me they don't have a clue as to what Jesus was all about.

What Jesus was:
Quote:
Jesus of the Gospels was an outspoken, nonviolent leftist who tried to reform his authoritarian conservative, dogmatic church but also refused to shut up with his call for justice for the down-trodden — even when his superiors threatened him with serious consequences if he didn’t.

The economic model of Jesus’s early church was socialist, where the resources of the group were shared with the widow and orphans and others who didn’t have enough. He would have stood, like the prophet he was, in solidarity with pacifists, socialists, antiwar activists and feminists and surely would have marched in nonviolent antiwar rallies.
What Jesus was not:
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Jesus was definitely NOT a punitive, pro-death penalty, pro-militarism conservative. His power came not from the sword but from the power of love.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Jesus was a non-violent leftist

Of course, Jesus was a leftist, since the status quo is always on the right.
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Old 01-26-2012, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: Jesus was a non-violent leftist

Non-violent???
He intructed the Disciples to arm themselves.
His clearing of the temple was defintiely not non-violent.

Liberal??
He understood the need for money and spent 30 years as a carpenter working for a living.
He was generous and giving.
He only helped those who were unable to help themselves, not those who were simply unwilling to do so.
He understood that financial blessing is just that - a blessing. One that carried with it the burden of using it responsibly.
While He challenged the religious authority, He did sobecause they were out of line with His Father's Word. He was a fundamentalist to the core.
He showed respect for the secular authority and submitted to it without complaint.

All of these are what I would consider conservative traits. See, it's easy to pick out the bits and pieces that support the POV you want to have and promote. But that's dishonest. An honest assessment would look at all sides and reach your conclusion based on the facts, not your personal agenda. Using cherry-picked facts to back up your predetermined conclusions has been your MO as long as I've known you, Billo. Do you ever plan on changing and stopping using this grossly dishonest method of making a point???
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:08 AM
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Post Re: Jesus was a non-violent leftist

Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
Non-violent???
He intructed the Disciples to arm themselves.
His clearing of the temple was defintiely not non-violent.
While the bible has its share of contradictions, Jesus's words on living by the sword / dying by the sword and turning the other cheek were quite clear.

One could argue that his clearing of the temple was an action that he specifically was uniquely entitled to (being his Father's temple) that should not be construed as to giving anybody else guidance to do likewise...
And as for instructing the disciples to arm themselves?


I would suspect a grotesque misrepresentation of the Ephesians "armor of God", but Jesus wasn't around when Ephesians was written.

So what the heck are you talking about?


Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant
Liberal??
He understood the need for money and spent 30 years as a carpenter working for a living.
What biblical evidence is there that when Jesus's missionary work was underway, that he actually worked as a carpenter to supply goods in exchange for food and shelter?



Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant
He was generous and giving.
He only helped those who were unable to help themselves, not those who were simply unwilling to do so.
Say whaaaa?
Again, where is the biblical evidence that this distinction was ever observed by Jesus?


Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant
He understood that financial blessing is just that - a blessing. One that carried with it the burden of using it responsibly.
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant
While He challenged the religious authority, He did sobecause they were out of line with His Father's Word. He was a fundamentalist to the core.
My gawd.
I lost my coffee all over my keyboard on this one...

Are you freakin' kidding me?

Jesus's preachings were a radical departure from the "conservative" establishment at REPEATED issues.
Over and OVER and OVER again.

The funny thing is that modern conservatives will HAPPILY proclaim that Jesus did away with many of the archaic Mosaic restrictions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant
He showed respect for the secular authority and submitted to it without complaint.
Whereas modern Republicanism can't understand the concept of the rich rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's...


Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant
All of these are what I would consider conservative traits. See, it's easy to pick out the bits and pieces that support the POV you want to have and promote.
Your response was a grotesque misrepresentation of the philosophy of Jesus.
YOU ARE trying to cherry-pick what you want to talk about, and most of it done dishonestly.

The flip side is not a dishonest portrayal of Jesus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant
But that's dishonest. An honest assessment would look at all sides and reach your conclusion based on the facts, not your personal agenda. Using cherry-picked facts to back up your predetermined conclusions has been your MO as long as I've known you, Billo. Do you ever plan on changing and stopping using this grossly dishonest method of making a point???
So you perpetrate EXACTLY what you falsely accuse Billo of.
Then you claim Billo is dishonest.

Wow.
Just WOW.

It is YOU who has no interest in an honest discussion on this thread.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: Jesus was a non-violent leftist

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
While the bible has its share of contradictions, Jesus's words on living by the sword / dying by the sword and turning the other cheek were quite clear.

One could argue that his clearing of the temple was an action that he specifically was uniquely entitled to (being his Father's temple) that should not be construed as to giving anybody else guidance to do likewise...
And as for instructing the disciples to arm themselves?


I would suspect a grotesque misrepresentation of the Ephesians "armor of God", but Jesus wasn't around when Ephesians was written.

So what the heck are you talking about?
35 And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”
So they said, “Nothing.”

36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’[a] For the things concerning Me have an end.”

Luke 22:35-37. There's a time and a place for war and weapons. To think that we're called to be defenceless victims is not Biblical.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:48 PM
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Default Re: Jesus was a non-violent leftist

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What biblical evidence is there that when Jesus's missionary work was underway, that he actually worked as a carpenter to supply goods in exchange for food and shelter?
None. But He was well funded even before His work on Earth started. Carpenters were not generally poor, they were highly skilled craftsmen who were able to ask and get premium wages. To think that Jesus was financially poor when He started His ministry is a flawed interpretation.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Jesus was a non-violent leftist

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Say whaaaa?
Again, where is the biblical evidence that this distinction was ever observed by Jesus?
Look at the people He helped. You'll find that they were never just poor, but had something inflicted upon them. Compassion flowed from Him without limit, but pity never did. This is one those things that you learn when you study the Bible and don't just read it.
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Old 01-26-2012, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Jesus was a non-violent leftist

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.
Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Cities at that time had gates. Next to the gates they had what we would call a man-door. In a time of war, the gate would be shut, but door would be left open, since it was easily defensible. This door was called "the eye of the needle". When they would take camels through the door, they would have to remove everything the camel carried and the camel would have to go through the door on it's knees. The picture being painted here (clearly uinderstood in that time), was one of someone who had to set aside (not give away, but set aside) their worldy goods and humble themselves. Rich people have a very difficult time with this.
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Jesus was a non-violent leftist

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
My gawd.
I lost my coffee all over my keyboard on this one...

Are you freakin' kidding me?

Jesus's preachings were a radical departure from the "conservative" establishment at REPEATED issues.
Over and OVER and OVER again.

The funny thing is that modern conservatives will HAPPILY proclaim that Jesus did away with many of the archaic Mosaic restrictions.
No, the religious leaders had added to the Law of Moses so much additional baggage that it was nearly unrecognizable as what God given to the Jews. What Jesus did was to live according to God's fundamental Law and not the laws created by the Pharisees, Saducees and teachers of the law. He was a true fundamentalist in that He was only interested in what God had said and not what man had decreed. The "conservative" religious leaders were more akin to our modern liberals, who believe that the law can be reinterpretted to the point where it has no connection to it's original intent.

Jesus fulfilled the terms of the Covenants that God had cut with the Jews (from Eden to the Messianic promises made to David and his descendents). Once these Covenants were completed, a New Covenant was put in place that did away with much of the old Covenant (primarily the ceremonial laws and the cursings).
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Old 01-26-2012, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: Jesus was a non-violent leftist

Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
None. But He was well funded even before His work on Earth started. Carpenters were not generally poor, they were highly skilled craftsmen who were able to ask and get premium wages. To think that Jesus was financially poor when He started His ministry is a flawed interpretation.
The craftsmen of that era Roman Empire were in a low station. They had no way to be capitalistic because the Roman system of economy was built on inheritance and perhaps military duty. The only way to move to a different profession (but clearly not station or cast) was to do "favor for favor" which is where the mafia system came from.
Jesus family were not beggars but were clearly not of the upper class and were peasants who could probably neither read nor write. Not that they were stupid, mind you and there were scribes for such necessities.
My reference for this is Crossan's book on the real historical Jesus.
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