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Old 04-04-2011, 02:59 PM
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Default Bibliograpy: The mythical basis of Christianity

Most Scholarship on these subjects is not online, so here are some book sources (unless otherwise cited). (all Available at Amazon)

Jews on Jesus: Jesus is not the Messiah and why.
Judaism's view of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rejection of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Why don't Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah? by Rabbi Barry Dov Lerner
Rayner, John D. A Jewish Understanding of the World, Berghahn Books, 1998, p. 187.
The Aryeh Kaplan Anthology: Volume 1, Illuminating Expositions on Jewish Thought and Practice, Mesorah Publication, 1991
Wylen, Stephen M. Settings of Silver: An Introduction to Judaism, Paulist Press, 2000
(Jewish Views of Jesus by Susannah Heschel, in Jesus In The World's Faiths: Leading Thinkers From Five Faiths Reflect On His Meaning by Gregory A. Barker, editor. Orbis Books, 2005

Historical reliability of the Acts of the Apostles (Wikipedia)
Butz, Jeffrey. The brother of Jesus and the lost teachings of Christianity. 2005. Rochester, Vermont: Inner Traditions.
Crosson, John Dominic. “Mark and the relatives of Jesus”. Novum Testamentum, 15, 1973
Mack, Burton. A myth of innocence: Mark and Christian origins. 1988. Philadelphia: Fortress
Painter, John. Just James: The brother of Jesus in history and tradition. 1999. Minneapolis: Fortress Press
Jesus' Family Was Not Supportive (Wikipedia)
, P, J.; James Mays, editor (1988). Harper Collins Bible Commentary. Harper Collins.

Jesus' Pagan Origins
Jesus stories before Jesus:
The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors: Christianity before Christ by Kersey Graves Cosio Classics 2007 (originally published in 1875.
Product Description
Khrisna of India. Thammuz of Syria. Esus of the Celtic Druids. Mithra of Persia. Quexalcoati of Mexico. All were crucified gods, and all met their fates hundreds of years before Jesus appeared on the scene. In this foundational work of modern atheism, American spiritualist KERSEY GRAVES (1813-1883) breaks the Christ myth down into its component parts and ably demonstrates how the story of Jesus has its roots in the depths of antiquity. Here you'll read about the surprising prevalence throughout global folklore of: . the miraculous and immaculate conception of the gods . stars that point out the time and place of a savior's birth . angels, shepherds, and magi visiting an infant savior . the 25th of December as the universal birth date of gods . saviors who descend into Hell . and much more. This is essential reading for students of comparative mythology and modern freethinkers.
Incredible Shrinking Son of Man: How Reliable Is the Gospel Tradition? Robert M Price Prometheus Books (December 2003)
Amazon review:
Unfortunately, those who can most profit from exposure to this book are the ones least likely to read it. Lacking a thoroughgoing familiarity with both the Old and New Testaments, the reader will need to keep both a Bible and the OED handy while poring through these pages. Needless to say, those who are best acquainted with scripture will not be easily lured into reading a book which does a remarkable job of unraveling the myth of Jesus. In it, there is a painstaking comparison of Bible passages, particularly the synoptic gospels, and well-documented arguments showing surprising discrepancies and extensive contradictions. But this is no Age of Reason. Price goes beyond picking apart passages by giving explanations about how the various Christian groups-particularly the Jewish Christian vs. the Gentile Christian ones-of the second and third centuries molded the New Testament to fit their sectarian views. Has Price demonstrated that there never was some sort of Christ figure alive and preaching around 30-40 A.D? Not really. But if a Jesus did in fact exist back then, Price has produced an avalanche of evidence to show that an even approximate record of that figure's life is not to be found in the gospels or in the other New Testament writings.
Jesus: Neither God Nor Man - The Case for a Mythical Jesus Earl Doherty; Age of Reason Publications; First edition (October 5, 2009)
Amazon review: This is one of the few books available that argues for the Mythic Jesus theory in a comprehensive manner, and it does an superb job of proving its case. The original Christian concept of the Christ was of a heavenly Son of God without a ministry on earth. That is, no historical Jesus is needed to explain the genesis of Christianity. Going beyond simply showing the weakness of any case for an historical Jesus, Earl Doherty makes his own positive case against one, by demonstrating that much of the early Christian literature is inconsistent with a historical Jesus having existed. Earl defends the view that Paul's epistles have no place for a historical Jesus, and are totally silent with regard to one; likewise for the writers of the other New Testament epistles. At the same time Doherty shows that much of the New Testaments presents a Cosmic Christ whose work in bringing believers salvation was accomplish in a mythical non-earthly realm. Earl then explains the origins of the gospels as allegorical literature, based on midrash of the OT, and not intended to be read as eyewitness historical accounts. As a final step in making his case comprehensive, Earl deals with alleged secular references to Jesus and analyzes how Jesus is talked about by Christian writers in the second and third centuries.
Suns of God: Krishna, Buddha and Christ Unveiled Acharaya S; Adventures Unlimited Press (October 15, 2004)
Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection D M Murdock, Acharya S Stellar House Publishing, LLC (February 28, 2009)
Amazon Review:
Review
Murdock's scholarship is relentless!
My name is Ken Feder. I am an archaeologist, and I play one on TV, as a talking head in various documentaries on the National Geographic Channel, the Discovery Channel, the History Channel, ScFi, BBC Horizon, and, as it turns out, even the Weather Channel. Having conducted research and written extensively over the course of the last thirty years, I think I have developed a good eye for recognizing valuable research that is worthy of serious consideration when I see it. And the research conducted by D.M. Murdock concerning the myth of Jesus Christ is certainly both valuable and worthy of consideration.
Everyone who reads Murdock's Christ in Egypt should understand that the sources she cites are anything but marginal or questionable. In fact, her sources are, at least as far as I can tell, entirely within the Egyptology mainstream and many are, in fact, revered, and deservedly so, within the community of Egyptologists. The fact that these sources are mainstream, highly respected, or even seminal does not, of course, make them right about the origins of the Christ story. However, it does make them, and Murdock's thesis in which she incorporates their work, impossible to dismiss out of hand.
--Kenneth L. Feder, PhD, Frauds, Myths and Mysteries

Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth John G Jackson; American Atheist Press (December 1, 1989)
Concise and easy-to-read. Christian doctrines are traced to their origins in older religions, and Jesus' similarities to other savior-gods are delineated
The Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God? Timothy Freke
Peter Gandy

Other scholarship on Biblical mythology.
The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read by Tim C. LeedomTruth Seeker/EWorld Inc.; 2nd edition (September 1, 2001) It's past time to expose the truth about religion myths, frauds, fantasies and fiction from End-times to Virgin Birth to Sun Worship. Now into its 3rd printing. A Best-seller. This popular anthology tells it all, the textbook of Freethought, edited by Tim C. Leedom.

The Dark Side of Christian History, Helen Ellerbe. Morningstar Books (July 1995) Amazon Review: Review
Over a period of nearly two millennia, the Christian Church has oppressed and brutalized millions of individuals. Meticulously researched and courageously written, "The Dark Side of Christian History" by Helen Ellerbe examines the Church's devastating impact upon human freedom, dignity and spirituality. Written for the lay reader, this controversial book is especially relevant today as the religious right is attempting to assert greater influence in American politics and society. "The Dark Side of Christian History presents a compelling argument that the Church's desire to control and contain spiritually motivated its persecution of heretics, its burning of libraries, the Crusades, the Inquisition, and the witch-hunts. This dark Christianity ahs left a legacy, a world view, which permeates every aspect of Western society. It is a legacy which fosters sexism, racism, the intolerance of difference and the desecration of the natural environment. Helen Ellerbe is a researcher, writer, and public speaker living in the San Francisco bay area. -- Midwest Book Review
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: Bibliograpy: The mythical basis of Christianity

Jesus figures before Jesus lived



Hinduism consists of a Trimurti (trinity): Brahma: The Creator. Vishnu: The Sustainer. Shiva: The Destroyer. 5,000 years ago Vishnu appeared in the form of a man before Devaki who conceived Krishna by Virgin Birth. Hindus worship the God, Vishnu. Krishna “The Savior” is the eighth (8th) Avatar of the God, Vishnu. The Higher Being takes on a mortal body, out of compassion, to help suffering humanity to attain perfection.
Krishna was born of a Virgin.Krishna was crucified, his arms extended on a cross. Krishna descended into Hell. Krishna rose from the dead.Krishna ascended into Heaven.
Krishna’s Miracles: The multiplication of small quantities of food. The healing of the sick and a laying on of hands.The raising of the dead back to life.The destruction of demons and the exorcism of the possessed.Appearing in less than a fleshy body. (Jesus’ transfigured body)Krishna’s childhood parallels Jesus with the King’s early massacre of infants.Krishna was able to perform miracles as a child. A snake crawled into his cradle and he killed it with his bare hands which is a parallel myth to the young Hercules. Krishna released people from sin, drove out evil spirits, raised the dead, gave sight to the blind, hearing for the deaf, made the lame walk, healed lepers. Krishna, The Son of God, did not want to start a new religion - merely to cleanse an old one.
The ninth (9th) appearance of Vishnu on Earth was in the form of Gautama Buddha; Prince Siddhartha, Sak y amuni (About 560-491 BC).Actually, the Prince abandoned his wife and family (was a dead-beat dad at least time-wise) and he bummed around for a few years, then became The Buddha and shared His enlightenment.Both Buddha, of the Orient, and Jesus, of the Jews, divested themselves of Earthly and personal ties. Krishna, of India, had also lived in poverty, had been devoted to the poor, was devoid of personal ties and advocated chastity.

About 500 BC, Buddha consisted of another Trinity: Buddha - Dharma - Sangha. Buddhists formalized their doctrine at The Council of Pa tali putra which took place in 241 BC, about 250 years after Buddha’s death.Christians formalized Jesus’ doctrine at The Council of Nicea in 325 AD which took place about 300 years after Jesus’ death. The books that made up “The Canon” (Bible) were also voted on at the time and Jesus was voted to be Divine.
Buddha Paraphrased: Buddha: The knowledge of the truth is the supreme blessing. Jesus is "God's word" and God's blessing.
Buddha: If they hit me, I would not react. Jesus: If they strike you, turn the other cheek.
Buddha was tempted by Mara, the Lord of sensory pleasures.Jesus was tempted by Satan.
Buddha spoke in parables.Jesus spoke in parables.
Buddha was regarded both divine and human. Jesus was “voted” at Constantine’s Counsel of Nicea to be both God and man.
Buddha had 12 disciples. His first 2 disciples were brothers.Jesus had 12 disciples. His first 2 disciples were brothers.
Buddha walked on water and had an unsure disciple walk towards him on water.Jesus walked on water and had an unsure disciple (Peter) walk towards him on water.
Buddha was considered to be The Son of God.Jesus was considered to be The Son of God.
…Buddha was born of the Virgin Maya. Jesus was born of The Virgin Mary. Both without carnal intercourse.
Buddha was baptized. Jesus was baptized.
Buddha died - His coffin opened by supernatural powers - He ascended to Heaven.Jesus' tomb was opened - He eventually ascended to Heaven.
Buddha was to return to Earth to restore order.Jesus was to soon have a second coming.
December 25. Rome captured a city who worshipped Sol-Invictus, a Sun God, whose birthday was on December 25th. On that date the Winter-Solstice lasts 3 days and then the primitive religious people worshipped that the Sun seemed to come back to life for the spring crop season.
Mithraism: Mithra was another god born on December 25th. Zoroastrianism
Who borrowed December 25th? Who supposedly came back to life in 3 days? Jesus!
Alexander the Great is historically recorded to have lived (356-323 BC) and to have died at 33 years of age. He was considered to be The Son of God.
According to history, did Alexander The Great live 500 years before Jesus Christ? If Jesus Christ was a real, historical character, why did history not accurately record Jesus’ year of birth and death? Didn’t Jesus, son of God, supposedly die at age 33? Exactly what year was Jesus born and what year did Jesus die?
Jesus Christ, outside the Bible, was not a historical character. Outside the Bible, history makes no mention of Jesus' exact dates of birth and death – nor of Jesus Christ, Himself?

Josephus, you say? Christian Popes ruled. Some Christian Pope edited Jesus into history.
The Bible claims that King Herod the Great, a true historical character, heard that a child was born in Bethlehem so to become King of the Jews.

In Matthew, Herod killed all of Bethlehem's male babies 2 -years old and younger so that no child could survive to become King of the Jews. Joseph took Mary and Jesus to Egypt to escape the massacre and they came back after King Herod died. Historical encyclopedias and dictionaries document that King Herod The Great died in 4 BC and that if Jesus Christ ever existed, He must have been between 4 & 6 BC. How could Jesus Christ be born 4 to 6 years before Himself?
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: Bibliograpy: The mythical basis of Christianity

More examples of Jesus-like mythology:
Hercules was crucified on a mount. His last words were: It is finished. Myth claims that Hercules, and his mother, ascended to Heaven. Hercules was considered to be The Son of God. Jesus was crucified on a mount. His last words were: It is finished.

At the counsel of Nicea, Jesus was voted by Constantine's clergy to be "The Son of God".All religions consider themselves to be THE TRUTH while declaring that all others are lies.
Long before Moses - a Pharaoh named Amen-Ra - of the Egyptians, changed traditional religion to the worshipping of one God - Horus - whose adversary was Set. Any Pharaoh since was considered to be the reincarnation of God. Horus and Set is another comparison to Jesus and Satan. Horus baptized. Jesus baptized. Horus and Jesus both were called “The Lamb” and had 12 followers.Lama-ism, is a form of Buddhism. It has produced 14 men who have been called the Dalai Lama - “God’s Lamb”.
Here are some men, all before Jesus, who, by coincidence, are claimed to be of virgin birth, to be The Son of God, who were all teaching by age 12. King killed male infants trying to destroy each of them. Each began his ministry at age 30 and was killed on the cross at age 33. All lived BC (Before Christ).
Thulis of Egypt 1700 BC
Krishna of India 1200 BC
Crite of Caldea 1200 BC
Atys 1170 BC
Thammuz of Syria 1160 BC
Prometheus 847 BC - Prometheus books… McKinsey
Hesus of the Druids 834 BC
Indra of Tibet 725 BC
Bali 725 BC
Lao of Napal 622 BC
Sakia 600 BC
Alcesios 600 BC
Mithra of Persia 600 BC
Quexalcote of Mexico 587 BC
Wattoba 552 BC
Quirinus of Rome 506 BC
Didn’t a King also kill all the male babies when Moses and Jesus were born?

Saviors Borrowed?Has the Christian Gospel "borrowed" historical accounts describing Jesus from Eastern scriptures which existed centuries before long the Bible?
Krishna was crucified.
The Persian remembers the atoning sufferings on the cross of Mithras the Mediator.
The Aztecs prayed for the miraculous return of their crucified savior, Quexalcoatl. They were rewarded - with the murderous acts of Cortez.
Caucasians chanted praises to their slain, Divine Intercessor, Prometheus, for voluntarily offering himself upon the cross for their sins.
Kersey Graves, in a well known book written over a century ago, gives examples of sixteen crucified gods or saviors. Kersey is certain these next crucifixions occurred before the time of Christ, but their exact date cannot be fixed.These crucifixions are not vouched as actual occurrences. The objective is not to prove them real events - but simply that the belief in the crucifixion of gods was prevalent long before the crucifixion of Christ.
Tammuz of Mesopotamia 1160 B.C.Tammuz was a god of Assyria, Babylonia and Sumeria. Tammuz was crucified as an atonement offering for the salvation of the world. This savior, which long preceded the advent of Christ, filled the same role in sacred history.
Wittoba is represented in his story with nail-holes in his hands and the soles of his feet. Nails, an iron crown.
Lao of Nepal 622 B.C. Iao was crucified on a tree in Nepal.
Hesus of the Celtic Druids 834 B.C.The Celtic Druids depict their god Hesus as having been crucified with a lamb on one side and an elephant on the other long before the Christian era.The elephant, being the largest animal known, was chosen to represent the magnitude of the sins of the world, while the lamb, from its proverbial innocent nature, was chosen to represent the innocence of the victim. We have the Lamb of God taking away the sins of the world. The Lamb of God could have been borrowed from the Druids. This legend was found in Gaul long before Jesus Christ was known to history.
Quezalcoatl of Mexico 587 B.C.Historical crucifixion of this Mexican god. The evidence engraved upon metal plates. Sometimes he is represented as having been nailed to a cross with two thieves hanging with him.
Quirinius of Rome 506 B.C. The crucifixion of this Roman savior. He is represented, like Christ: conceived and brought forth by a virgin. His life was sought by the reigning king, Amulius. He was of royal blood, his mother being of kingly descent. He was put to death by wicked hands or crucified. He is resurrected, and ascends back to heaven.
Prometheus 547 B.C.The crucifixion of Prometheus - he was nailed to an upright beam of timber, extended arms of wood, a cross. When he died: The earth shook, the graves were opened, and and Our Lord and saviour Prometheus gave up the ghost. The cause for which he suffered was his love for the human race. The story of Prometheus' crucifixion, burial and resurrection was acted in pantomime in Athens five hundred years before Christ.
Thulis of Egypt 1700 B.C.Thulis of Egypt, died on the cross about thirty-five hundred years ago.After suffering a violent death, he was buried, but rose again, ascended into heaven, and there became the judge of the dead, or of souls in a future state. He came down from heaven to benefit mankind, and that he was said to be full of grace and truth.
Indra of Tibet 725 B.C.This Tibetan saviour is shown nailed to the cross. There are five wounds, representing the nail-holes and the piercing of the side. His mother was a virgin. He ascended to a heavenly mansion after his crucifixion. He led a life of strict celibacy, which, he taught, was true holiness. He inculcated great tenderness toward all living beings. He could walk upon the water or upon the air. He could foretell future events with great accuracy. He completely subdued his passions. He was worshiped as a god who had existed as a spirit from all eternity.
Alcestos of Euripides 600 B.C. A crucified God was Alcestos, who was female, the only example of a feminine God atoning for the sins of the world upon the cross. The doctrine of the trinity and atoning offering for sin was part of her religion.
Attis of Phrygia 1170 B.C. This crucified Messiah was suspended on a tree, crucified, buried and rose again.
Crite of Chaldaea 1200 B.C.The Chaldeans crucifixion of a god atoning for an Angry God.
Bali of Orissa 725 B.C.A crucified God, known by being the second member of the trinity.
Most of the crucified gods occupied that position in a trinity of gods, the Son, in all cases, being the atoning offering.
Mithras of Persia 600 B.C. This Persian God was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind, and to take away the sins of the world. He was born on the twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree.
Devatat of Siam, Ixion of Rome, Apollonius of Tyana all died on the cross.
Ixion, 400 BC, was crucified on a wheel, the rim representing the world, and the spokes constituting the cross. He bore the burden of the world, the sins of the world, on his back while suspended on the cross. He was called the crucified spirit of the world.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: Bibliograpy: The mythical basis of Christianity

Have you ever considered the idea that these are reflections of the Truth and that Jesus was the One True and Perfect Sacrifice? After Jesus' sacrifice, no more new mythologies popped up. His was the final reality of which the tales you cite are only shadows. Certain truths are evident in mankinds very core nature and the idea that sins are paid for by sacrifice is one of those truths. Jesus and His sacrifice are part of our very being. The idea of a Savior is nearly universal because it's part of who we are. The stories you cite are a reflection of this implanted knowlege coming out through people who had seen this concept in thier hearts and could only express it in the terms of their culture.
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:35 PM
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Default Re: Bibliograpy: The mythical basis of Christianity

An infidel lecturer in England was once asked, "Why can't you let the Bible alone if you don't believe it?" The honest and immediate reply was, "Because it won't let me alone."
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Bibliograpy: The mythical basis of Christianity

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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
Have you ever considered the idea that these are reflections of the Truth and that Jesus was the One True and Perfect Sacrifice? After Jesus' sacrifice, no more new mythologies popped up. His was the final reality of which the tales you cite are only shadows. Certain truths are evident in mankinds very core nature and the idea that sins are paid for by sacrifice is one of those truths. Jesus and His sacrifice are part of our very being. The idea of a Savior is nearly universal because it's part of who we are. The stories you cite are a reflection of this implanted knowlege coming out through people who had seen this concept in thier hearts and could only express it in the terms of their culture.
So well put!

We see but through a glass, darkly...
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Old 04-04-2011, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Bibliograpy: The mythical basis of Christianity

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Have you ever considered the idea that these are reflections of the Truth and that Jesus was the One True and Perfect Sacrifice? After Jesus' sacrifice, no more new mythologies popped up. His was the final reality of which the tales you cite are only shadows. Certain truths are evident in mankinds very core nature and the idea that sins are paid for by sacrifice is one of those truths. Jesus and His sacrifice are part of our very being. The idea of a Savior is nearly universal because it's part of who we are. The stories you cite are a reflection of this implanted knowlege coming out through people who had seen this concept in thier hearts and could only express it in the terms of their culture.
I was showing Jesus before Jesus. Those were ALL mythology. They were not historical and never meant to be. This biblio was put together as documenting the extra-Christian views in answer to an earlier debate question on a thread that had nothing to do with this subject.

Mythology is good, it just isn't factual. Jesus the Messiah is a myth. The Christ is a long standing religious artifact, reverberating all through history. Why is Paul's version factual when no other version was? Paul's version is not factual, either, it is mythology and what's more the Greeks knew it. They were aware of the Savior myth in many versions.

Why don't Christian biblicists regard the Jewish opinion of Messiah-ship of any force? Jesus never did meet up with any of the criteria for Messiah-ship.

Paul usurped the OT from its owners, the Jews during and after the rebellious times leading up to the destruction of the Temple in 72ce. I think he thought the Jews were destroyed and no longer of any consequence and simply took the OT for his own uses.
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:16 PM
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I was showing Jesus before Jesus. Those were ALL mythology. They were not historical and never meant to be. This biblio was put together as documenting the extra-Christian views in answer to an earlier debate question on a thread that had nothing to do with this subject.
You misunderstand what he is saying. Jesus always was--He was "in the beginning." It is a metaphysical reading of historical events.

Quote:
Mythology is good, it just isn't factual
Mythology and fact are not mutually exclusive.

Quote:
Jesus the Messiah is a myth. The Christ is a long standing religious artifact, reverberating all through history. Why is Paul's version factual when no other version was? Paul's version is not factual, either, it is mythology and what's more the Greeks knew it. They were aware of the Savior myth in many versions.
Myth is a very complex word. In some ways I agree with your statements here, but in the way YOU mean them, I believe I do not.

This may help... What Is Myth - Toward a Definition of Myth


Quote:
Why don't Christian biblicists regard the Jewish opinion of Messiah-ship of any force? Jesus never did meet up with any of the criteria for Messiah-ship.
Oh, but he did--but the EXPECTATIONS of how those criteria would manifest is all man made by the Jewish Nation which were well known to be a "stiff-necked people" who often fled from God's Truth. It's good to be the Chosen People, however...

Quote:
Paul usurped the OT from its owners, the Jews during and after the rebellious times leading up to the destruction of the Temple in 72ce. I think he thought the Jews were destroyed and no longer of any consequence and simply took the OT for his own uses.
Paul WAS a persecutor of Christians of the highest order--he was there when they stoned Stephen, the 1st martyr, and he was of the class of Pharisees.
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Bibliograpy: The mythical basis of Christianity

These are my positions. They may or may not reflect my actual beliefs, but I am never impressed with Christians who don't know enough about this stuff to do anything but get all excited when any tiny thing about their LITERAL beliefs, is challenged. I am not trying to convince any Christian to quit being a believer. But if you can't make a good historical case for Jesus as a man; it should not diminish your faith in the Christ.

But history is fact, not faith. Faith does not have to be based in history.

I read the NT. There were four major sects. Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes and Zealots. The Pharisees were already into afterlives and suchlike. Much more mystical than the Sadducees, much more materialistic than the Essenes, much less rebellious than the Zealots.

First premise: When Paul saw the light of how to teach a Pharisaical version of of Messianic Christianity, he nailed it and became the true founder of Christianity. His letters are the oldest writings in the NT, except for highly censored fragments in the Gospels. There is nothing that is not Paul-approved in the NT. Paul's story is the prototypical, " I was a bad person, then I found Christ" Paul is the prototypical, "God talks to me" so I am the spokesman for Jesus" preacher. Paul also said other things that are now not enforced in most churches about slaves and women. And they lived in communes?


2nd premise: If, Jesus was a Jew. He was born, lived, and died a Jew And Jews resurrected him. His "resurrection" was metaphorical. It meant, "Stand up, stand up for your rights...Don't give up the fight" until the last Jew dies. In fact, the rebelliousness got worse and worse until the Romans destroyed the temple in 72 ce after 6 years of actual fighting with the Jews. The Jews scattered, lost their homeland and there was no organized group that could challenge Paul's usurpation of the bible or that the "Jews killed Jesus"

Well the Jews certainly "killed" the idea Jesus was a Messiah- a real spoilsport thing for them to do-considering. So even though their holy writ was stolen, all Jews were ostracized and devalued, because of their debunkery of some non-historical person now claimed to be a Messiah.

3rd Premise: Not that anyone was ever able to prove when Jesus was born let alone lived, which is unusual for a historical figure. Or when he died. Not even the earliest gospels ever mentioned those basics. Paul was certainly in a position to ask Peter or other people about that.

Why? They had no interest in proving Jesus to be a historical man, only a divine one.

I am not trying to convince any Christian to quit being a believer. But if you can't make a good historical case for Jesus as a man; it should not diminish your faith in the Christ.
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Bibliograpy: The mythical basis of Christianity

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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
Have you ever considered the idea that these are reflections of the Truth and that Jesus was the One True and Perfect Sacrifice?
Just not the first emanation of that idea, nor the last.
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After Jesus' sacrifice, no more new mythologies popped up.
HuH? Not counting Mohammad, or the Bab and Baha'ullah? Or Wovoka? (There are a number of Native Saviors who met bad ends.)

Quote:
His was the final reality of which the tales you cite are only shadows. Certain truths are evident in mankinds very core nature and the idea that sins are paid for by sacrifice is one of those truths. Jesus and His sacrifice are part of our very being. The idea of a Savior is nearly universal because it's part of who we are. The stories you cite are a reflection of this implanted knowlege coming out through people who had seen this concept in thier hearts and could only express it in the terms of their culture.
Beautiful sentiments and ones I can relate to. However, by the actual sequence, time wise, the first gong rung by the Brahman who brought the entire Universe into being, is still reverberating. Krishna was the 8th emanation and Jesus is an emanation of The Krishna line of reverberations, and Buddha the 9th after Krishna. And so on. It was and is ALL truth in reverberation until the "end" of this Universe. Celestial Harmonies. It is all reducible to songs (Waves) and music (particles).
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The holdings of the rich are not legitimate if they are acquired through competition from which others are excluded, and made possible by laws that are shaped by the rich for the benefit of the rich. In these ways, economic inequality can undermine the conditions of its own legitimacy.”
T M Scanlon http://ideas.ted.com/the-4-biggest-r...d-for-society/

Last edited by Xolo; 04-04-2011 at 06:10 PM..
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