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Religion & Philosophy Discuss Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is correct?" at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by Mikeyy By the way did your religion teach you to be snarky? Yes. It's a gift....

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Old 03-26-2011, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is corre

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
By the way did your religion teach you to be snarky?
Yes. It's a gift.
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“Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making!”
Or if you're a traditionalist,
“Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha!”
And children, say it like you mean it!

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Old 03-26-2011, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is corre

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Yes. It's a gift.
God works in mysterious ways they say
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2011, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is corre

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
No, It's learned as you grow. It doesn't need to come from a religious doctrine. Tribes in the jungles of the amazon learned these things without doctrine from a organized religion.
First, as I have taken pains to explain repeatedly and at length, anyone with a moral code that includes a right and a wrong has a religion. Only an amoralist is without. A code of moral right and moral worng in itself is a religion is no other holds sway.

But if your morality is learnt, one must ask from what? And if one is so shallow as to announce "my parents," or some other such imperceptive response, one must ask from what they acquired it.

Protestations that it has evolved naturally will not be well received. Communism, Racism, Slavery , Genocidal Militarism, Absolute Monarchy, and Caste Systems are logically evolved moral systems, which it appears that you eschew.

Care of the weak, compassion for those that have little economic or social worth, mercy for enemies, tolerance for deviants, and acceptance of needless racial variety are all examples of wildly illogical (and yet superior) moralities.

As for your posited Amazonian Tribes, first, we must consider that their social and moral codes have n0ot allowed them to advance unaided to even a primitive agricultural civilization. To be blunt, they are a prime example of a failed society in all but avoiding extinction.
Second, you cannot know whether they have ever had contact with divine beings, prehistoric Chinese mariners, lost European pilgrims, extraterrestrials or Santa Clause. Without a written language, they have only a vague idea of their own history, and we likely have an even poorer grasp.
__________________
“Quod scripsi, scripsi"

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣

“Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making!”
Or if you're a traditionalist,
“Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha!”
And children, say it like you mean it!

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2011, 11:38 AM
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Default Re: Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is corre

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Originally Posted by Xolo View Post
I do not understand people who think their locus of control is external, found by scaring the hell into you.

All parents teach their children ethics and morality. Good parents teach an internal locus of control. Most children by far, let their consciences rule them. And the ones with the internal locus of control, just don't do things to hurt another.

One of the big problems with inerrant Biblism is the Fear of God. And indeed their god does seem to be wrathful and unforgiving,sending catastrophes to punish his children for things He never mentioned in the first place? If biblers were to avoid every abomination in the Bible, it would include not eating shellfish

Where is the Loving Father whose children obey out of respect and a desire to not disappoint them?
Christians definitely teach that the moral “locus of control" is internal, but that the standard of moral judgment is external.

This is little different that the kinetic (voluntary bodily movement) "locus of control" being internal, but the natural judgment is external, embodied in physics. For example, I control my movements when I run on slick ice, but physics passes judgment when I fall and break my neck.

By the way, when a person has both the "locus of control" and the standard of judgment internalized, they are essentially a sociopath.
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“Quod scripsi, scripsi"

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣

“Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making!”
Or if you're a traditionalist,
“Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha!”
And children, say it like you mean it!

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣
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Old 03-26-2011, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is corre

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
First, as I have taken pains to explain repeatedly and at length, anyone with a moral code that includes a right and a wrong has a religion. Only an amoralist is without. A code of moral right and moral worng in itself is a religion is no other holds sway.
But if your morality is learnt, one must ask from what? And if one is so shallow as to announce "my parents," or some other such imperceptive response, one must ask from what they acquired it.

Protestations that it has evolved naturally will not be well received. Communism, Racism, Slavery , Genocidal Militarism, Absolute Monarchy, and Caste Systems are logically evolved moral systems, which it appears that you eschew.

Care of the weak, compassion for those that have little economic or social worth, mercy for enemies, tolerance for deviants, and acceptance of needless racial variety are all examples of wildly illogical (and yet superior) moralities.

As for your posited Amazonian Tribes, first, we must consider that their social and moral codes have n0ot allowed them to advance unaided to even a primitive agricultural civilization. To be blunt, they are a prime example of a failed society in all but avoiding extinction.
Second, you cannot know whether they have ever had contact with divine beings, prehistoric Chinese mariners, lost European pilgrims, extraterrestrials or Santa Clause. Without a written language, they have only a vague idea of their own history, and we likely have an even poorer grasp.
Let me explain why you are wrong. If I stick my finger in a wall socket I learn that I shouldn't do that. It is not then a religion to follow that lesson. It's an education. Living in a social community with other social beings we learn that there are consiquences to our actions. It isn't the guilt and possible retaliation from an angry god that keeps me on the straight and narrow. It's the knowledge of what it is to be wronged. It's also the knowledge that doing wrong to others isolates you from the rest of the community. Again, no supernatural being required.
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Old 03-26-2011, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is corre

To fear something for not following a set of rules is not religion, it is fear.

Knowing how one wants to be treated, and therefore treats others the same way, is not religion, it is human understanding.

I choose not to live in fear, but with human understanding.
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Old 03-26-2011, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is corre

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Let me explain why you are wrong. If I stick my finger in a wall socket I learn that I shouldn't do that. It is not then a religion to follow that lesson. It's an education. Living in a social community with other social beings we learn that there are consiquences to our actions. It isn't the guilt and possible retaliation from an angry god that keeps me on the straight and narrow. It's the knowledge of what it is to be wronged. It's also the knowledge that doing wrong to others isolates you from the rest of the community. Again, no supernatural being required.
You are confusing "prudent" and "imprudent" with "right " and "wrong," a common mistake for the junior students.

In this model, if I gained amusement form convincing a crippled and completely unloved beggar to stick his finger in a light socket, I have done no wrong.

If you disagree, I ask you to explain why and support your argument with the validation of your concept of “right and wrong,” with attention to why this should bind my actions.


In the actions I described, the negative measurable impact on society is negligible, since the beggar has no economic or social worth.

If you feel that there is some moral wrong attached to the action I described, then please define it.

I will go further. Exterminating the beggar I described would have positive social and economic ramifications. So why doing so at once should be seen as “wrong?” Note that a number of societies have in the past employed and acted upon such reasoning, so it is not a particularly far-fetched example.

Again, I ask you to validate a concept of “right” and “wrong” without an exterior and superior framework.
__________________
“Quod scripsi, scripsi"

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣

“Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making!”
Or if you're a traditionalist,
“Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha!”
And children, say it like you mean it!

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is corre

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
You are confusing "prudent" and "imprudent" with "right " and "wrong," a common mistake for the junior students.

In this model, if I gained amusement form convincing a crippled and completely unloved beggar to stick his finger in a light socket, I have done no wrong.

If you disagree, I ask you to explain why and support your argument with the validation of your concept of “right and wrong,” with attention to why this should bind my actions.


In the actions I described, the negative measurable impact on society is negligible, since the beggar has no economic or social worth.

If you feel that there is some moral wrong attached to the action I described, then please define it.

I will go further. Exterminating the beggar I described would have positive social and economic ramifications. So why doing so at once should be seen as “wrong?” Note that a number of societies have in the past employed and acted upon such reasoning, so it is not a particularly far-fetched example.

Again, I ask you to validate a concept of “right” and “wrong” without an exterior and superior framework.
None so blind as those who will not see. I just said that we learn from experience. Some of what we learn is from being wronged ourselves. This experince teaches us the feeling of being wronged. Like the wall socket, not a pleasant experience. You learn that someone has viewed you in the way you view the begger. Someone of little worth and not deserving of respect. Knowing that that view is wrong again is another lesson that we add to our experience. From this we gain compassion. Compassion allows us to view the begger through the prism of our own experiences. It's really not this difficult to grasp. Again, you have to take into account that we are social creatures. We have a need for companionship. From this we learn how to interact in the community. Do you understand grasshopper?
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Old 03-26-2011, 12:47 PM
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Default Re: Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is corre

Actually, a casual reading of history will soon reveal that most societies do not develop pronounced compassion for the less fortunate through experience, but contempt and hatred.

Do you remember about twenty years ago, when Brazilian shopkeepers hired off duty police to shoot about a score of homeless children who'd been camping at night outside their stores?

Their response when confronted by the international press was mild confusion, since they'd only had "kids nobody wanted" killed as pests.


Or a scant lifetime ago, when the Germans euthanized their institutionalized mental patients?

Or The Soviets starving surplus peasants?

Or the Cambodians committing self-genocide against about two million of their own people?

Are you familiar with the Russian proverb that tells us the "The tears of strangers are only water?"

Compassion for those of other race, class, nation or even gender are remarkably rare in the history of nations and societies. A few Christianized ones or ones founded on those broad principles are examples of countries where such thinking is so common as to be thought spontaneous by the unobservant.
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“Quod scripsi, scripsi"

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣

“Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making!”
Or if you're a traditionalist,
“Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha!”
And children, say it like you mean it!

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣

Last edited by Oftencold; 03-26-2011 at 12:59 PM..
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2011, 12:51 PM
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Default Re: Question: "With all of the different religions, how can I know which one is corre

So often contempt for those of lessor position comes from fear of 'what could be'. Denial of where each one of us may be or end up.

Accepting that not everyone is or wants to be in the same place in society is part of human understanding.
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