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Religion & Philosophy Discuss Feelings about Muslims at the General Discussion; Well, I have got to put two cents in here.......... I'm watching the football game tonight!...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: Feelings about Muslims

Well, I have got to put two cents in here..........

I'm watching the football game tonight!
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: Feelings about Muslims

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
Well, I have got to put two cents in here..........

I'm watching the football game tonight!
Are you saying that you don't spend all your free time worrying about religious tolerance and whose feelings are being hurt?
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Old 09-24-2010, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Feelings about Muslims

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
"Good and Evil" are religious terms, by the way, and dependent upon the judgment of a superior, external entity.
I differ with your assessment on that.
Throughout the millennium, people of all cultures have had a societal acceptance about what was good or evil. Some attributed that superior external entity you reference (albeit different ones), and some did not.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Feelings about Muslims

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Quite frankly, I'm not sure that they are mutually exclusive, but merely two sides of the same coin. In religious texts of more than religion, God is referred to as "All", denoting to me that maybe mankind is the guilty party of seeing things in black and white rather than "God" being opposite of "Devil". We do have a dual nature as humans, and maybe this is a way for us to deny the negative side of our humanness. Just a thought.
That is very Taoist of you.
I don't know if you have ever read The Tao Te Ching, but it speaks of that exact concept.
You cannot have ugliness without beauty, you cannot have darkness without light, you cannot have sweet without sour and you cannot have goodness without evil. In order for one to exist, you must have a frame of reference, which means that the other must also exist.
That is the duality of human thought and judgment.
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Old 09-24-2010, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Feelings about Muslims

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Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
Quite frankly, I'm not sure that they are mutually exclusive, but merely two sides of the same coin. In religious texts of more than religion, God is referred to as "All", denoting to me that maybe mankind is the guilty party of seeing things in black and white rather than "God" being opposite of "Devil". We do have a dual nature as humans, and maybe this is a way for us to deny the negative side of our humanness. Just a thought.
In Perelandra, the second book of his "Space Trilogy," C.S. Lewis stages a marvelous imaginary discussion, though that isn't quite the right term, between two angelic beings, two unfallen Humanoids -- the Adam and Eve of a new race, and a Terrestrial Human, in which the nature of Good and Evil among other things are topical.

He makes the case that all things are in God, and God in all things, except when a being tries to be somewhere else. God being "everywhere," the alternative is to be "nowhere."

In this vision, and others Evil isn't the opposite of Good, it is unreality, deception, un-life, and self-imposed madness.

I find that I hold this view to be more true than the somewhat Eastern View of a duality between Good and Evil.

In the Perelandrian discussion, Creation is referred to as "The Great Dance," and God (Christ) that world is called "Maleldil," evil is "the Bent Will."

Quotes:

"He is in every place. Not some of Him in one place and some in another, but in each place the whole Maleldil, even in the smallness beyond thought. There is no way out of the centre save into the Bent Will which casts itself into the Nowhere. Blessed be He!"

"Each thing was made for Him.. He is the centre. Because we are with Him, each of us is at the centre. It is not as in a city of the Darkened World where they say that each must live for all. In His city all things are made for each. When He died in the Wounded World He died not for me, but for each man. If each man had been the only man made, he would have done no less. Each thing, from the single grain of Dust to the strongest eldil, is the end and the final cause of all creation and the mirror in which the beam of His brightness comes to rest and so returns to Him. Blessed be He!"
[. . .]

He is in every place. Not some of Him in one place and some in another, but m each place the whole Maleldil, even in the smallness beyond thought. There is no way out of the centre save into the Bent Will which casts itself into the Nowhere. Blessed be He!"

"In the plan of the Great Dance plans without number interlock, and each movement becomes in its season the breaking into flower of the whole design to which all else had been directed. Thus each is equally at the centre and none are there by being equals, but some by giving place and some by receiving it, the small things by their smallness and the great by their greatness, and all the patterns linked and looped together by the unions of a kneeling with a sceptred love. Blessed be He!"

"All that is made seems planless to the darkened mind, because there are more plans than it looked for. In these seas there are islands where the hairs of the turf are so fine and so closely woven together that unless a man looked long at them he would see neither hairs nor weaving at all, but only the same and the flat. So with the Great Dance. Set your eyes on one movement and it will lead you through all patterns and it will seem to you the master movement. But the seeming will be true. Let no mouth open to gainsay it. There seems no plan because it is all plan: there seems no centre because it is all centre. Blessed be He!"

[ . . .]

"He has immeasurable use for each thing that is made, that His love and splendour may flow forth like a strong river which has need of a great watercourse and fills alike the deep pools and the little crannies, that are filled equally and remain unequal; and when it has filled them brim full it flows over and makes new channels. We also have need beyond measure of all that He has made. Love me, my brothers, for I am infinitely necessary to you and for your delight I was made. Blessed be He!"

"He has no need at all of anything that is made. An eldil is not more needful to Him than a grain of the Dust: a peopled world no more needful than a world that is empty: but all needless alike, and what all add to Him is nothing. We also have no need of anything that is made. Love me, my brothers, for I am infinitely superfluous, and your love shall be like His, born neither of your need nor of my deserving, but a plain bounty. Blessed be He!"

"All things are by Him and for Him. He utters Himself also for His own delight and sees that He is good. He is His own begotten and what proceeds from Him is Himself. Blessed be He.

Of the dust:

"It is farthest from Him of all things, for it has no life, nor sense, nor reason; it is nearest to Him of all things for without intervening soul, as sparks fly out of fire, He utters in each grain of it the unmixed image of His energy. Each grain, if it spoke, would say, I am at the centre; for me all things were made. Let no mouth open to gainsay it. Blessed be He!" "

Howzat?
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Last edited by Oftencold; 09-24-2010 at 08:23 PM..
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Feelings about Muslims

I don't mean to sound like a troll or offend anyone. Nonetheless, I do consider Islam horribly misguided.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:40 PM
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Default Re: Feelings about Muslims

I consider people who make blanket statements about a religion they don't personally study or practice to be misguided.
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:42 PM
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Default Re: Feelings about Muslims

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Originally Posted by sky dancer View Post
I consider people who make blanket statements about a religion they don't personally study or practice to be misguided.
Why do you presume I haven't studied it?
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Old 09-24-2010, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: Feelings about Muslims

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Originally Posted by GoshDarnit View Post
Why do you presume I haven't studied it?
Are you a practicing Muslim?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2010, 09:47 PM
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Default Re: Feelings about Muslims

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Originally Posted by Pat View Post
I differ with your assessment on that.
Throughout the millennium, people of all cultures have had a societal acceptance about what was good or evil. Some attributed that superior external entity you reference (albeit different ones), and some did not.
The Aztecs thought that cutting the hearts out of living human sacrifices was "good."

No, I'll stand by what I wrote. "Good" and "Evil" are religious terms that may be instinctively usurped by the irreligious (because no one sane is truly Atheistic, including, respectfully, yourself.)

Perhaps the terms that are more applicable are "right" and "wrong," which can have a somewhat, though by no means more prosaic connotation.
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“Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making!”
Or if you're a traditionalist,
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And children, say it like you mean it!

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