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PW Presidential Race Discuss Item-2: Education at the Elections; The education department is gone. They were worthless anyway. The DOE has only one function now. They distribute vouchers for ...

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Old 04-04-2012, 10:21 PM
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Default Item-2: Education

The education department is gone. They were worthless anyway. The DOE has only one function now.

They distribute vouchers for every child that is proven to be a US citizen to be used at any school they choose.

From kindergarten through 12th grade they get a voucher to spend where they want and with what school they want. After the age of 18 they can get 4 more years of vouchers if they first get a high school diploma, and second maintain a B average through college.

The vouchers are simply divided by how much money came in country wide and distributed among school age citizens in all the states equally.
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Item-2: Education

Are you going to do anything with the buildings and equipment of schools that don't make the grade?
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Old 04-04-2012, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Item-2: Education

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Originally Posted by AzMike View Post
The education department is gone. They were worthless anyway. The DOE has only one function now.

They distribute vouchers for every child that is proven to be a US citizen to be used at any school they choose.

From kindergarten through 12th grade they get a voucher to spend where they want and with what school they want. After the age of 18 they can get 4 more years of vouchers if they first get a high school diploma, and second maintain a B average through college.

The vouchers are simply divided by how much money came in country wide and distributed among school age citizens in all the states equally.
Wonderful idea in theory. HORRIBLE in practice. The whole reason why vouchers are even remotely a good idea goes to the theory that it creates competition and competition improves results. But to create competition, there must be a level playing field in terms of the rules. The rules are promulgated through the Department of Education. These rules include things the the public schools must provide education to students with disabilities or behavior problems. Private schools are not bound by these rules and end up dumping children onto the public schools. If the private schools were not permitted to dump children that were "problematic" and if all schools had to play by the same rules, then vouchers would be a legitimate option.
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:47 AM
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Default Re: Item-2: Education

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Wonderful idea in theory. HORRIBLE in practice. The whole reason why vouchers are even remotely a good idea goes to the theory that it creates competition and competition improves results.
Wrong...It goes MUCH further...

It ALSO takes over $10,000 out of the cost of every public school student...

It's sorry-ass hyprocrisy that the public school system whines about the teacher-to-student ratio, but the second you solve that problem by easing the burden by having more students go outside of the public school system, they whine even more...
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Old 04-05-2012, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: Item-2: Education

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Wrong...It goes MUCH further...

It ALSO takes over $10,000 out of the cost of every public school student...

It's sorry-ass hyprocrisy that the public school system whines about the teacher-to-student ratio, but the second you solve that problem by easing the burden by having more students go outside of the public school system, they whine even more...
1. You obviously don't understand how school funding works in most districts.
2. There is no reliable evidence as to the cost of education reduction.
3. You actually don't solve the problem by having more students go outside the public school system, you create problems for any students with any sort of disability.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: Item-2: Education

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1. You obviously don't understand how school funding works in most districts.
More money comes from the taxpayer for a student in public school than for a student not in public school...

This is Education Cost 101...I understand perfectly...and won't play six degrees of spin...

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2. There is no reliable evidence as to the cost of education reduction.
Ummm...

Taxpayers pay 100% for a public school students...They pay zero for a non-public school student...

That zero % goes all the way up to (maybe) 30% if a voucher system is in place...

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3. You actually don't solve the problem by having more students go outside the public school system, you create problems for any students with any sort of disability.
That would be a CHOICE for the parents to make...Not a forced position by people who think they know better...
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Item-2: Education

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Real spending per pupil ranges from a low of nearly $12,000 in the Phoenix area schools to a high of nearly $27,000 in the New York metro area. The gap between real and reported per-pupil spending ranges from a low of 23 percent in the Chicago area to a high of 90 percent in the Los Angeles metro region.

To put public school spending in perspective, we compare it to estimated total expenditures in local private schools. We find that, in the areas studied, public schools are spending 93 percent more than the estimated median private school.
They Spend WHAT? The Real Cost of Public Schools | Adam B. Schaeffer | Cato Institute: Policy Analysis

I believe that the argument about disabilities is a weak one. If you are talking about kids with handicaps such as MS, cancer, muscular dystrophy, then I would agree that they should have the same options of public or private schools. However, if you are talking about children who are mentally challenged and have no real hope of ever being a productive member of society, then I think there should be private institutions to help them in life.

To me when I hear someone say, "leveling the playing field," the first thing I think is dumbing down the good schools.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: Item-2: Education

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Are you going to do anything with the buildings and equipment of schools that don't make the grade?
Sell the land to private education companies so they can bulldoze the crap buildings and put up good ones that will draw students and generate profit for them. It's so incredibly simple that I can't believe we still still have the massive public education system we have. If we privatized 90% of our schools, we'd end up with better educated students, lower education costs and a more personalized educational process. When your have a community with three High Schools and all three offer the exact same classes, routines, etc. then your students have little options as far as what educational system they want to be a part of. But put your education system into the hands of private enterprise and you'll end up with smaller schools that are more customized to the particular needs of the individual students. It would create a competitive atmosphere wherein the schools would be using RESULTS to get parents to choose thier school instead of just drawing a line on a map and the kid gets stuck in the school that the city decides they go to. All of which would produce better educated students at lower costs.
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:37 AM
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Default Re: Item-2: Education

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
More money comes from the taxpayer for a student in public school than for a student not in public school...
That does not mean it costs more to educate a child in public school than it does in private school. Who is paying the bill doesn't change the price of the bill.

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This is Education Cost 101...I understand perfectly...and won't play six degrees of spin...
But you are spinning already.

Quote:
Taxpayers pay 100% for a public school students...They pay zero for a non-public school student...
Again, the portion that the tax payer pays is irrelevant to the argument that it costs more to educate in public school, which is the argument you made.

Quote:
That zero % goes all the way up to (maybe) 30% if a voucher system is in place...
Again, random selection of numbers.

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That would be a CHOICE for the parents to make...Not a forced position by people who think they know better...
Actually, you are eliminating the choice of parents of disabled children. You are forcing those parents to choose public schools because public schools are the only schools REQUIRED to provide the types of academic opportunities and methodologies that would benefit the child.
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Old 04-05-2012, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Item-2: Education

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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
Sell the land to private education companies so they can bulldoze the crap buildings and put up good ones that will draw students and generate profit for them. It's so incredibly simple that I can't believe we still still have the massive public education system we have. If we privatized 90% of our schools, we'd end up with better educated students, lower education costs and a more personalized educational process. When your have a community with three High Schools and all three offer the exact same classes, routines, etc. then your students have little options as far as what educational system they want to be a part of. But put your education system into the hands of private enterprise and you'll end up with smaller schools that are more customized to the particular needs of the individual students. It would create a competitive atmosphere wherein the schools would be using RESULTS to get parents to choose thier school instead of just drawing a line on a map and the kid gets stuck in the school that the city decides they go to. All of which would produce better educated students at lower costs.
Yeah, because for profit health insurance works so well
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