Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > Political Forums > The President & the Executive Branch
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

The President & the Executive Branch Discuss Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by saltwn then why did he lose a liable lawsuit over that very thing? yes if you defraud ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2019, 08:54 AM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,429
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,316 Times in 1,842 Posts
Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
then why did he lose a liable lawsuit over that very thing?
yes if you defraud an insurance company it is a crime.
he probably pays off appraisers. hello
There have been no allegations of fraud committed related to claim filings. The fraud alleged is related to the reduction of premium based upon the total assets of the insured.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2019, 10:35 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 20,039
Thanks: 13,615
Thanked 14,992 Times in 8,610 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I'm not an insurance representative and I'm only citing what is being alleged. The allegation is that over-inflated property values reduced the cost of the insurance premiums. That was the claim and this had nothing to do with insurance claims.
So, you are simply repeating nonsensical claims with no understanding of their meaning. Brilliant.

This reminds me of the AOC interview where she railed against Israel then responded to the request for more details with "I am not an expert".
__________________
If Democrats were confident their nominee actually received more than 80 million votes they wouldn't have more troops occupying Washington, DC than Lincoln had defending the city during the Civil War. Not Joe Biden, Kim Jung Biden.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AZRWinger For This Useful Post:
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2019, 09:09 AM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 13,601
Thanks: 12,209
Thanked 10,123 Times in 6,142 Posts
Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I'm not an insurance representative and I'm only citing what is being alleged. The allegation is that over-inflated property values reduced the cost of the insurance premiums. That was the claim and this had nothing to do with insurance claims.
I have said nothing in any of my posts regarding claims, I don't know why you keep bringing it up.

PREMIUMS are based on the value and risk for the item insured. The only possible reduction, would be a multi-policy situation, where you insure multiple assets, like home-auto-liability, or in a business, liability-umbrella-workers comp. What you are trying to portray, or Cohen, if indeed that is what he is promoting, is NOT what happens in the insurance industry.

I deal with business insurances (as the insured) as part of my job. I'd absolutely LOVE it if there was a grain of truth to that idea, but there isn't.
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2019, 09:36 AM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,429
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,316 Times in 1,842 Posts
Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I have said nothing in any of my posts regarding claims, I don't know why you keep bringing it up.

PREMIUMS are based on the value and risk for the item insured. The only possible reduction, would be a multi-policy situation, where you insure multiple assets, like home-auto-liability, or in a business, liability-umbrella-workers comp. What you are trying to portray, or Cohen, if indeed that is what he is promoting, is NOT what happens in the insurance industry.

I deal with business insurances (as the insured) as part of my job. I'd absolutely LOVE it if there was a grain of truth to that idea, but there isn't.
I'm merely repeating the allegations made during the testimony presented to Congress. It was stated that the insurance premiums for very wealthy clients are reduced based upon the total assets of the insured. That may be true or it may be false but if true and highly inflated values are given for the assets held are submitted to the insurance company it would be fraud. If not true then Trump's highly inflated values would have no meaning because they wouldn't have been submitted to an insurance company in the first place. Trump would not have submitted a value of his property in upstate New York of $291 million when it's only worth about $22 million to secure insurance on it because the premiums would have soared based upon his over-the-top exaggeration of the actual value.

So is there a case of insurance fraud? I don't know because I don't know how premiums are established for the super-wealthy.

What we do know is that this over-the-top $291 million valuation of the same property was used in an attempt to secure funding so that Trump could purchase the Buffalo Bills. Trump didn't receive that funding but the application for the funding itself is BANK FRAUD because Trump intentionally attempted to deceive the bank in order to qualify for a loan.

So we have President Trump committing BANK FRAUD even if we don't have President Trump committing Insurance Fraud as Michael Cohen testified and Cohen presented hard documentary evidence of that fraud so we're not just taking Cohen's word for it.

The SDNY has the evidence to support the claim made by Cohen and I'd assume that New York Attorney General, that can also bring bank fraud charges, also has this evidence and they don't need Cohen to even testify in the case.

Disputing the allegation of Insurance Fraud doesn't change the fact that Trump is still an unindicted criminal (based solely upon DOJ policy related to a sitting president) based upon the known documents that provide the basis for the criminal act of Bank Fraud in applying for a loan.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2019, 01:45 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 13,601
Thanks: 12,209
Thanked 10,123 Times in 6,142 Posts
Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I'm merely repeating the allegations made during the testimony presented to Congress. It was stated that the insurance premiums for very wealthy clients are reduced based upon the total assets of the insured. That may be true or it may be false but if true and highly inflated values are given for the assets held are submitted to the insurance company it would be fraud. If not true then Trump's highly inflated values would have no meaning because they wouldn't have been submitted to an insurance company in the first place. Trump would not have submitted a value of his property in upstate New York of $291 million when it's only worth about $22 million to secure insurance on it because the premiums would have soared based upon his over-the-top exaggeration of the actual value.

So is there a case of insurance fraud? I don't know because I don't know how premiums are established for the super-wealthy.

What we do know is that this over-the-top $291 million valuation of the same property was used in an attempt to secure funding so that Trump could purchase the Buffalo Bills. Trump didn't receive that funding but the application for the funding itself is BANK FRAUD because Trump intentionally attempted to deceive the bank in order to qualify for a loan.

So we have President Trump committing BANK FRAUD even if we don't have President Trump committing Insurance Fraud as Michael Cohen testified and Cohen presented hard documentary evidence of that fraud so we're not just taking Cohen's word for it.

The SDNY has the evidence to support the claim made by Cohen and I'd assume that New York Attorney General, that can also bring bank fraud charges, also has this evidence and they don't need Cohen to even testify in the case.

Disputing the allegation of Insurance Fraud doesn't change the fact that Trump is still an unindicted criminal (based solely upon DOJ policy related to a sitting president) based upon the known documents that provide the basis for the criminal act of Bank Fraud in applying for a loan.
I have repeatedly explained the problems with that supposed 'Statement of Financial Position'. In addition, TRUMP WOULD NOT BE WHO COMPILES A FINANCIAL STATEMENT.

Geez...There are so many intrinsic flaws in so many of Cohen's statements, first saying yes, he was looking for a reduction in sentence, then saying no, he wasn't, then producing documents with no providence, then saying Trump didn't owe him money, and the checks were paying back for Stormy's pay off, then saying Trump owes him retainer (?) fees.... the boy has more contradictions regarding what went on then a van load of Baptists caught at Hooters!
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #46 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:01 PM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 20,039
Thanks: 13,615
Thanked 14,992 Times in 8,610 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I'm merely repeating the allegations made during the testimony presented to Congress. It was stated that the insurance premiums for very wealthy clients are reduced based upon the total assets of the insured. That may be true or it may be false but if true and highly inflated values are given for the assets held are submitted to the insurance company it would be fraud. If not true then Trump's highly inflated values would have no meaning because they wouldn't have been submitted to an insurance company in the first place. Trump would not have submitted a value of his property in upstate New York of $291 million when it's only worth about $22 million to secure insurance on it because the premiums would have soared based upon his over-the-top exaggeration of the actual value.

So is there a case of insurance fraud? I don't know because I don't know how premiums are established for the super-wealthy.

What we do know is that this over-the-top $291 million valuation of the same property was used in an attempt to secure funding so that Trump could purchase the Buffalo Bills. Trump didn't receive that funding but the application for the funding itself is BANK FRAUD because Trump intentionally attempted to deceive the bank in order to qualify for a loan.

So we have President Trump committing BANK FRAUD even if we don't have President Trump committing Insurance Fraud as Michael Cohen testified and Cohen presented hard documentary evidence of that fraud so we're not just taking Cohen's word for it.

The SDNY has the evidence to support the claim made by Cohen and I'd assume that New York Attorney General, that can also bring bank fraud charges, also has this evidence and they don't need Cohen to even testify in the case.

Disputing the allegation of Insurance Fraud doesn't change the fact that Trump is still an unindicted criminal (based solely upon DOJ policy related to a sitting president) based upon the known documents that provide the basis for the criminal act of Bank Fraud in applying for a loan.
As usual you just parrot talking points with no comprehension of what you write.

Quote:
One curious example is a mansion and surrounding 200-acre property that Trump bought in the mid-1990s in Westchester, New York. Back then, he paid $7.5 million. In 2012, according to the records Cohen submitted to Congress, Trump valued the property at $291 million. It’s unclear what supported the valuation, though the summary referred to integral “accompanying notes” that weren’t present in what Cohen filed.
Cohen the convicted liar. A lawyer who has discarded the cardinal ethic of client confidentiality. Someone who has retained Clinton fixer Lanny Davis who engineered 12 hours of rehearsed testimony with the staff of notorious Trump hater Congressman Schiff.

But Cohen spews smears against his former client to try to get his jail time reduced and suddenly he has proven Trump's criminality. Never mind Cohen edited the excerpt to exclude the explanation for the valuation change, orange man bad is all that matters.

The source for the claim that a higher valuation would result in a lower premium comes from Cohen's testimony. To believe this it's necessary to conclude that premiums to insure a $290 million property will be lower than those to insure a $7 million property. Anyone who has a home mortgage or bought a car knows the higher the valuation the higher the premium, but there is no need for logic on the Resistance.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.blo...-investigators
__________________
If Democrats were confident their nominee actually received more than 80 million votes they wouldn't have more troops occupying Washington, DC than Lincoln had defending the city during the Civil War. Not Joe Biden, Kim Jung Biden.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AZRWinger For This Useful Post:
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2019, 03:10 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 13,601
Thanks: 12,209
Thanked 10,123 Times in 6,142 Posts
Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I'm merely repeating the allegations made during the testimony presented to Congress. It was stated that the insurance premiums for very wealthy clients are reduced based upon the total assets of the insured. That may be true or it may be false but if true and highly inflated values are given for the assets held are submitted to the insurance company it would be fraud. If not true then Trump's highly inflated values would have no meaning because they wouldn't have been submitted to an insurance company in the first place. Trump would not have submitted a value of his property in upstate New York of $291 million when it's only worth about $22 million to secure insurance on it because the premiums would have soared based upon his over-the-top exaggeration of the actual value.

So is there a case of insurance fraud? I don't know because I don't know how premiums are established for the super-wealthy.

What we do know is that this over-the-top $291 million valuation of the same property was used in an attempt to secure funding so that Trump could purchase the Buffalo Bills. Trump didn't receive that funding but the application for the funding itself is BANK FRAUD because Trump intentionally attempted to deceive the bank in order to qualify for a loan.

So we have President Trump committing BANK FRAUD even if we don't have President Trump committing Insurance Fraud as Michael Cohen testified and Cohen presented hard documentary evidence of that fraud so we're not just taking Cohen's word for it.

The SDNY has the evidence to support the claim made by Cohen and I'd assume that New York Attorney General, that can also bring bank fraud charges, also has this evidence and they don't need Cohen to even testify in the case.

Disputing the allegation of Insurance Fraud doesn't change the fact that Trump is still an unindicted criminal (based solely upon DOJ policy related to a sitting president) based upon the known documents that provide the basis for the criminal act of Bank Fraud in applying for a loan.
Quoted from Cohen's own statements:

Quote:
“It was my experience that Mr. Trump inflated his total assets when it served his purposes, such as trying to be listed among the wealthiest people in Forbes, and deflated his assets to reduce his real estate taxes,” Cohen said in prepared remarks.
The inanity of that statement is just astounding. Think, for just one moment, who assess the value of real estate for tax purposes.

Not the owner, the landlord, or the tenant. The Tax Assessor does. Not Trump, though some seem to think he's omnipresent.

In virtually everything presented so far, Trump is not the one who created the financials presented, assessed his tax value, and I stand by my review of the supposed 'Statement of Financial Position'.

I don't like Trump, but this flagrant hunt for a crime is pretty much showing the crux of the problem... the irrational need to try and 'get him' on anything they can. Cohen is a very sad example of a desperate man, and the Democrats are using him as best they can.
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #48 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2019, 03:53 PM
Dog Man's Avatar
Down Boy!
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern Nevada
Gender: Male
Posts: 15,184
Thanks: 9,371
Thanked 8,417 Times in 5,572 Posts
Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Quoted from Cohen's own statements:

The inanity of that statement is just astounding. Think, for just one moment, who assess the value of real estate for tax purposes.

Not the owner, the landlord, or the tenant. The Tax Assessor does. Not Trump, though some seem to think he's omnipresent.

In virtually everything presented so far, Trump is not the one who created the financials presented, assessed his tax value, and I stand by my review of the supposed 'Statement of Financial Position'.

I don't like Trump, but this flagrant hunt for a crime is pretty much showing the crux of the problem... the irrational need to try and 'get him' on anything they can. Cohen is a very sad example of a desperate man, and the Democrats are using him as best they can.
Great post GG
__________________
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
- William F. Buckley
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Dog Man For This Useful Post:
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2019, 03:55 PM
GetAClue's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Northern Ohio
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,348
Thanks: 12,262
Thanked 8,989 Times in 5,100 Posts
Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

To it is utterly astounding that the Left is pinning their hopes of prosecuting Trump for crimes alleged by a guy that is literally going to prison for lying. If that is all you need for proof, Hillary should be rotting in a cell right now.
__________________
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine

A lie doesn't become truth, a wrong doesn't become right, and Evil doesn't become good, just because it is accepted by the majority. - Booker T Washington
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GetAClue For This Useful Post:
  #50 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:29 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Miles to go before I sleep
Posts: 13,601
Thanks: 12,209
Thanked 10,123 Times in 6,142 Posts
Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
To it is utterly astounding that the Left is pinning their hopes of prosecuting Trump for crimes alleged by a guy that is literally going to prison for lying. If that is all you need for proof, Hillary should be rotting in a cell right now.
Just think about what would have happened to Cohen if he had been testifying against Hillary.
__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you don't laugh at yourself, a whole bunch of people will volunteer to do it for you
I never lose. I either win, or I learn....
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
Reply

Tags
insurance, investigation, new, organization, policies, source, trump, under, york

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0