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The President & the Executive Branch Discuss Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by GottaGo Once again, you assume that Trump deals with the minutia of the running of a business ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2019, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Once again, you assume that Trump deals with the minutia of the running of a business 'Trump hired illegals' 'Trump misused insurance proceeds'. He has responsibility as an owner, yes, but a requirement to deal with the regular dealings of a business? You could ask my boss, an owner, what was done and what was repaired or replace in an insurance claim when someone hit one of our locations with their car. He would look at you and say 'It got fixed, a wall, a window, some flooring' and that's about as specific as you are going to get.

Regardless of the fact that this person you quote has an axe to grind. there are certain facts that are conveniently left out - when a business closes for a time due to an insured event, there is recompense for several things that do not involve physical assets. Loss of income is one, based of an averaging of income for the time period immediately before the event, and the same time period the previous year. If the business pays employees for the time they are not working, that is also partially covered (depending on the policy) under Employee Retention.

There's just a couple of facts for you. Educate yourself on the subject matter, before you claim someone to be an incriminating 'expert'.
That's not what Trump was doing. It had nothing to do with filing claims against an insurance policy. It was about obtaining lower premiums for the insurance coverage. Michael Cohen addressed this in his public testimony before Congress.

Insurance premiums are affected by the assets held by the insured in these high dollar cases. By inflating the value of his property Donald Trump was able to get lower insurance rates. The inflation of the property value is fraud under both State and Federal law.

Trump used highly over-inflated property values both for obtaining lower insurance premium costs and in applying for loans. The best example is a property Trump owns in upper state New York. He purchased it for $7.5 million in the 1990's. It's never exceeded $25 million in value but when applying for a loan in an attempt to purchase the Buffalo Bills in 2012 Donald Trump claimed the value was $291 million. Last year on his financial statement he claimed it was only worth $25-$50 million (a current independent appraisal values it at $22 million today.

When you over-value a $25 million property by a quarter of a billion dollars for insurance or a loan application that's blatant CRIMINAL FRAUD.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
That's not what Trump was doing. It had nothing to do with filing claims against an insurance policy. It was about obtaining lower premiums for the insurance coverage. Michael Cohen addressed this in his public testimony before Congress.

Insurance premiums are affected by the assets held by the insured in these high dollar cases. By inflating the value of his property Donald Trump was able to get lower insurance rates. The inflation of the property value is fraud under both State and Federal law.

Trump used highly over-inflated property values both for obtaining lower insurance premium costs and in applying for loans. The best example is a property Trump owns in upper state New York. He purchased it for $7.5 million in the 1990's. It's never exceeded $25 million in value but when applying for a loan in an attempt to purchase the Buffalo Bills in 2012 Donald Trump claimed the value was $291 million. Last year on his financial statement he claimed it was only worth $25-$50 million (a current independent appraisal values it at $22 million today.

When you over-value a $25 million property by a quarter of a billion dollars for insurance or a loan application that's blatant CRIMINAL FRAUD.
I would be interested in finding out what insurance company, still in business, would LOWER insurance premiums on a higher valued asset. Please provide validated links to reputable sources. Disregarding standard procedures of appraisals, personal inspections, annual reviews, and requirements for reporting of assets insured and the actuarial risk factors involved, I would absolutely LOVE to know which insurance company would do what you claim.

I've already dissected that supposed Statement of Financial Position, to which no response that I am aware of was made, so I will disregard your statement as intrinsically false.

Your claim screams of fallacy. The conditions you statement are not the normal business practices under which an insurance company would insure assets.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

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Originally Posted by Constant_Slothrop View Post
1,100 respondents is plenty for a representative and statistically valid poll. I have no idea what you’re complaining about.
Perhaps that is part of the problem: You thinking a poll of 1,100 respondents out of a nation of roughly 330,000,000 is 'plenty', and the fact you think disagreeing is 'complaining'.

Attempts at marginalizing and dismissal means you have no rational defense.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

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Originally Posted by Dog Man View Post
Probably not enough to keep him from being re-elected though.
It should be interesting if that proves out. As I've stated before, I almost hope he doesn't run again, I am mighty tired of all the screeching and squalling from both sides. But once again, neither side has a even half way decent option.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
And Cohen provided the documents showing Trump over-inflated the values of his properties both for obtaining reduced insurance rates and for loan applications.

Providing false information in both cases is fraud, a felony under NY State and federal law, and while DOJ policies prevent federal prosecutors from indicting or prosecuting a sitting President that restriction does not apply to state prosecutors.
Of course as part of the resistance you automatically think Trump broke the law, because that is what you want to see.

Do you know that Trump personally crunched the numbers? And from his calculations that he purposefully changed the true numbers? Or did his accountants do it? Is there proof that he told his accountants to over-inflate the numbers?
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Old 03-08-2019, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

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Originally Posted by Dog Man View Post
Of course as part of the resistance you automatically think Trump broke the law, because that is what you want to see.

Do you know that Trump personally crunched the numbers? And from his calculations that he purposefully changed the true numbers? Or did his accountants do it? Is there proof that he told his accountants to over-inflate the numbers?
None of that should matter. first, Insurance companies have assessors who are charged with validating value and loss.

Premiums are based on value and possible loss. Contracts are based on the same criteria's.

Bank lending is the same process. And in point of fact, without insurance, there would be no banking credit. banking and insurance. They are two legs of the same monster.
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Perhaps that is part of the problem: You thinking a poll of 1,100 respondents out of a nation of roughly 330,000,000 is 'plenty', and the fact you think disagreeing is 'complaining'.

Attempts at marginalizing and dismissal means you have no rational defense.
No, I think the problem is that you clearly do not understand how polling and statistical analysis work.

From Scientific American:

How can a poll of only 1,004 Americans represent 260 million people with only a 3 percent margin of error?
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Old 03-08-2019, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
That's not what Trump was doing. It had nothing to do with filing claims against an insurance policy. It was about obtaining lower premiums for the insurance coverage. Michael Cohen addressed this in his public testimony before Congress.

Insurance premiums are affected by the assets held by the insured in these high dollar cases. By inflating the value of his property Donald Trump was able to get lower insurance rates. The inflation of the property value is fraud under both State and Federal law.

Trump used highly over-inflated property values both for obtaining lower insurance premium costs and in applying for loans. The best example is a property Trump owns in upper state New York. He purchased it for $7.5 million in the 1990's. It's never exceeded $25 million in value but when applying for a loan in an attempt to purchase the Buffalo Bills in 2012 Donald Trump claimed the value was $291 million. Last year on his financial statement he claimed it was only worth $25-$50 million (a current independent appraisal values it at $22 million today.

When you over-value a $25 million property by a quarter of a billion dollars for insurance or a loan application that's blatant CRIMINAL FRAUD.
Premiums are based on value insured. I'm trying to understand how over inflating value lowers a premium.

As for loan values, I've had banks challenge estimates of property value and made me independently prove the assessment presented. Banks seldom allow for an inflated value and if they do, the loss responsibility is on them.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
then why did he lose a liable lawsuit over that very thing?
yes if you defraud an insurance company it is a crime.
he probably pays off appraisers. hello
FYI, an appraiser happens to be the only person involved in a mortgage that is licensed, and is the only party with much to lose if fraud is claimed. It also worth noting that it is rare for the property owner to pick his own appraiser. The lender or insurer does that. So no, Trump probably doesn't.

Again, defrauding an insurance company doesn't happen during evaluation. It happens when the real property gets burned or the semi gets pushed over a cliff.
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Old 03-09-2019, 08:49 AM
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Default Re: Trump Organization's insurance policies under investigation in New York: Source

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I would be interested in finding out what insurance company, still in business, would LOWER insurance premiums on a higher valued asset. Please provide validated links to reputable sources. Disregarding standard procedures of appraisals, personal inspections, annual reviews, and requirements for reporting of assets insured and the actuarial risk factors involved, I would absolutely LOVE to know which insurance company would do what you claim.

I've already dissected that supposed Statement of Financial Position, to which no response that I am aware of was made, so I will disregard your statement as intrinsically false.

Your claim screams of fallacy. The conditions you statement are not the normal business practices under which an insurance company would insure assets.
I'm not an insurance representative and I'm only citing what is being alleged. The allegation is that over-inflated property values reduced the cost of the insurance premiums. That was the claim and this had nothing to do with insurance claims.
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