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The President & the Executive Branch Discuss Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by mr wonder The only investigation that matters is the Mueller investigation whaaat? Congressional investigations are not criminal ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2018, 11:10 AM
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Default Re: Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Quote:
The only investigation that matters is the Mueller investigation
whaaat?
Congressional investigations are not criminal investigations. The Mueller investigation is under the DOJ and is a criminal investigation.

The GOP controlled House "investigation" wasn't even an investigation. It was a GOP cover-up where the GOP majority provided false and misleading information to the American people.

The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee report from July 2018 did not claim that there was no evidence of a conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russians. What it did debunk was the claims by Donald Trump that the Russians were not attempting to help Trump get elected. The Russian election influence campaign has been labeled as the most effective covert election influence campaign in history. If it's the most effective in history then it's influence certainly exceeded the US best efforts where we've achieved a 4% change in the vote in other countries. Less than a 1% change in three key states would have changed the election outcome.

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
It's not dishonst to base an opinion on evidence IN HAND.
And at this point the there's only thin smoke and PRECIOUS Little of that.
Based upon a recording of Devin Nunes where he uses an analogy if a candidate receives stolen emails and makes them public then it's a crime. The Trump Tower meeting was about attempting to secure stolen emails from Russian intelligences so that the Trump campaign could make them public for it's campaign and that's conspiracy to commit a crime.

That's far more than just "thin smoke" because according the Nunes it's a criminal act of conspiracy.
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Old 08-25-2018, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The impeachment articles against Bush were referred to the House Judiciary Committee (as per procedures) on June 11, 2008 and were not acted upon because Bush would be leaving office in six months.

Bill Clinton was impeached for committing perjury, witness tampering, misleading the American people by making false statements, and obstruction of justice over a private sexual affair based upon a civil lawsuit. The two key issues were perjury and obstruction of Justice. There are 11 current Republican senators that voted on these two articles of impeachment. Only one of those 11 Republican senators, Susan Collins, voted not guilty on both charges. There were no other articles that addressed other criminal violations related to his perjury and obstruction of justice related to a civil lawsuit.

Donald Trump's cover-up of his sexual affairs includes creditable violations of numerous criminal acts including violations of campaign finance laws, bank fraud, tax evasions and money laundering.

Hillary Clinton and the DNC did not employ foreign nationals in their opposition research nor did they receive any information from the Russian government. The DNC/Clinton campaign contracted with Fusion GPS to conduct "Open Source" (i.e. public information) research on Trump's business operations. When the public information took the research to Russia related to funding of the Trump Organization Fusion GPS, without the knowledge of the DNC/Clinton campaign, subcontracted that part of it's research to Orbis Business Intelligence LTD that was partially owned by Christopher Steele. When Steele inquired through his established sources of intelligence they returned information that was unexpected and that had nothing to do with the contract between the DNC/Clinton campaign and Fusion GPS. That intelligence is contained in the Steele "Dossier" and none of that information was furnished to the Clinton campaign or the DNC. It was instead provided to the FBI for investigation. Steele was a very creditable source of intelligence, and his sources were very reliable, based upon years of interactions between Steele and his work as head of MI6's Russia Desk and since leaving MI6.

The DNC/Clinton campaign contracted for and only received information available from the public domain.

The Trump Campaign was seeking information illegally obtained directly from Russian intelligence and that illegally obtained information was furnished to the Trump Campaign by Russian intelligence with it's public release using DCLeaks (that the Russian intelligence set up for that purpose) and WikiLeaks. Upon release the Russian trolls and bots began making false claims about what was actually contained in the emails (e.g. there were no actions taken by the DNC to undermine the Bernie Sanders campaign although there were statements about actions could be taken to undermine the Sander's campaign but those proposals were rejected).

Trump's behavior in Helsinki, where he provided aid and comfort to Vladimir Putin, a known enemy of the United States currently waging an undeclared cyber-war against the United States, when Trump sided with Putin over the unanimous conclusions of all US intelligence agencies is the basis for alleging that Trump is a traitor. Providing aid and comfort to an enemy is a Constitutional basis for treason.
You have really outdone yourself spewing partisan propaganda.

The top 2 articles in the Bush impeachment document have to do with the administration following intelligence agencies assessments. But when President Trump questions the so-called intelligence community conclusion of Russian hacking it's treason. It's classic Democrat double talk.

The formulation claiming the Trump administration colluded with the Russians by using emails available in the public domain achieves a new level of Resistance lunacy. Somehow public information is evidence of collusion. Embarrassing information showing Democrat corruption must be censored in the public interest.

You can try deflecting the fact that Hillary's campaign funded the dirty dossier or that Obama administration officials used the unproven allegations in it to secure secret surveillance warrants on a political adversary but that doesn't detract from the fact they used the Federal government to conduct a campaign of political sabotage. The denials and deflections just expose the blind hatred of the Resistance.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2018, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
You have really outdone yourself spewing partisan propaganda.

The top 2 articles in the Bush impeachment document have to do with the administration following intelligence agencies assessments. But when President Trump questions the so-called intelligence community conclusion of Russian hacking it's treason. It's classic Democrat double talk.

The formulation claiming the Trump administration colluded with the Russians by using emails available in the public domain achieves a new level of Resistance lunacy. Somehow public information is evidence of collusion. Embarrassing information showing Democrat corruption must be censored in the public interest.

You can try deflecting the fact that Hillary's campaign funded the dirty dossier or that Obama administration officials used the unproven allegations in it to secure secret surveillance warrants on a political adversary but that doesn't detract from the fact they used the Federal government to conduct a campaign of political sabotage. The denials and deflections just expose the blind hatred of the Resistance.
Well said sir. You and others in this thread have done your usual good job in debunking Shiva, a regularly dishonest source of bunkem. You all did such a good job I'll only point out one long time and well documented lie/fundamental lack of intellectual honesty of Shiva's part.

Despite the fact that it has been pointed out to him over and over, "honest" Shiva just can't stop trying to drag his "treason" argument into his TDS harangues. Usually he just runs away and hides when his lack of honesty and ability to retain documented information that rebuts him comes up. Only to pop up again another day and repeat the same chitt. So whether he is a just hack of a dishonest POS or run of the mill dishonest troll, since the result is the same? Who cares. He's very comfortable brining up the same well documented and well debunked "argument" over and over again, like an intellectually dishonest broken record that can't learn from his past mistakes. He'll just keep making the same one and expecting the rest of us to what? Pat him on the back for his special dishonest ability to pretend that previously debunked arguments about Trump's "treason" have not been addressed over and over and over again. He is obviously perplexed why nobody buys what he is selling.

Hey, remember this?


FLASHBACK: Remember When Obama Campaign Was Fined $375,000 for Campaign Reporting Violations AND NO JAIL TIME?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/08/flashback-remember-when-obama-campaign-was-fined-375000-for-campaign-reporting-violations-and-no-jail-time/

Last edited by Schochite; 08-25-2018 at 01:13 PM..
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2018, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
A serious problem is that Trump supporters try to address each criminal or impeachable offense by Donald Trump as a single issue upon which everything depends. The fact is that the possible criminal and impeachable offenses that Trump faces, all from his own actions, is unprecedented in American history.
Donald Trump is literally facing dozens of possible criminal law violations and impeachable offenses any one of which warrant's Trump's removal from office.
It's no wonder that it's being reported that Trump's freaking out and public actions by Trump reflect that he's becoming unhinged as the noose tightens with former friends and allies now cooperating with prosecutors because they're facing serious criminal charges on their own. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
mmm. well i don't know bout that, Shiva .
the charges (possibly unfounded) being layered against him and his people so far might be many in number but the severity seem pretty small and sadly of the kind that many politicians could be hit with.
In contrast here's the list of Items that the impeachment papers of G.W.Bush involved.
The summary below was written by the Congressional Research Service, which is a nonpartisan division of the Library of Congress. link
6/10/2008--Introduced. Impeaches President George W. Bush for high crimes and misdemeanors.
Sets forth articles of impeachment stating that President Bush, in violation of his oath of office:
(1) ----....---(28)
f....
the lines of evidence for all of it was CLEAR with witnesses ready to testify and some acts public record.
But with all that on the table and Dems in power Nancy Pelosi and other leaders on the left decided that "impeachment was off the table" and Obama decide he wanted to "look forward" rather than backwards.
.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The impeachment articles against Bush were referred to the House Judiciary Committee (as per procedures) on June 11, 2008 and were not acted upon because Bush would be leaving office in six months....
WAIT a minute i was addressing this...
QUOTE SHIVA
"A serious problem is that Trump supporters try to address each criminal or impeachable offense by Donald Trump as a single issue upon which everything depends. The fact is that the possible criminal and impeachable offenses that Trump faces, all from his own actions, is unprecedented in American history.
Donald Trump is literally facing dozens of possible criminal law violations and impeachable offenses any one of which warrant's Trump's removal from office."


I posted MORE than 2 dozen impeachable offenses All high order crimes against nations and the citizens of our nation as a whole.
So before we go on to BS excuses as to why the left never impeached or prosecuted Bush or any of his cronies, can we all say that Trump is NOT facing a Number of " possible criminal and impeachable offenses unprecedented in American history"?
can we objectively agree on that?
since GWBush was charged with 28 impeachable offenses and Trump has yet to be charged with ONE. And we still don't know what he MIGHT be indicted for.
at this point all the charges are simply wishful thinking and dreams on the part of many on the left.

Trumps people have been charged with various minor and semi-major white collar crimes. And as far as i know, none have been charged with colluding with the Russians. Or treason. or the like.
so the hyperbole of Trumps
" possible criminal and impeachable offenses unprecedented in American history" is BS.
sorry it just is.
and the idea that
"A serious problem is that Trump supporters try to address each criminal or impeachable offense by Donald Trump as a single issue upon which everything depends"
Is off as well. Look each Charge thrown against the wall or run up the flag pole has been side issues, weak or completely wrong. and collectively they don't weave a tight chain of anything. but the typical political scumbaggery.






Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Bill Clinton was impeached for committing perjury, witness tampering, misleading the American people by making false statements, and obstruction of justice over a private sexual affair based upon a civil lawsuit. The two key issues were perjury and obstruction of Justice. There are 11 current Republican senators that voted on these two articles of impeachment. Only one of those 11 Republican senators, Susan Collins, voted not guilty on both charges. There were no other articles that addressed other criminal violations related to his perjury and obstruction of justice related to a civil lawsuit.
Bill Clinton's impeachment was a circus sideshow of nothing burger. and had no effect on his presidencies other than a public and private inconvenience and a historical black mark at the at the tail end.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Donald Trump's cover-up of his sexual affairs includes creditable violations of numerous criminal acts including violations of campaign finance laws, bank fraud, tax evasions and money laundering.
Clinton's impeachable sexual issue were DURING his term. trump's were not.
which of those alleged cries happen during the term or during the run up. and which can you hang directly on Trump?
the burden of proof is on you and you have not even come close to starting. but you talk as if the game is already over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Hillary Clinton and the DNC did not employ foreign nationals in their opposition research nor did they receive any information from the Russian government. The DNC/Clinton campaign contracted with Fusion GPS to conduct "Open Source" (i.e. public information) research on Trump's business operations. When the public information took the research to Russia related to funding of the Trump Organization Fusion GPS, without the knowledge of the DNC/Clinton campaign, subcontracted that part of it's research to Orbis Business Intelligence LTD that was partially owned by Christopher Steele. When Steele inquired through his established sources of intelligence they returned information that was unexpected and that had nothing to do with the contract between the DNC/Clinton campaign and Fusion GPS. That intelligence is contained in the Steele "Dossier" and none of that information was furnished to the Clinton campaign or the DNC. It was instead provided to the FBI for investigation. Steele was a very creditable source of intelligence, and his sources were very reliable, based upon years of interactions between Steele and his work as head of MI6's Russia Desk and since leaving MI6.
The DNC/Clinton campaign contracted for and only received information available from the public domain.
their money helped paid for the whole show. Would the former British intel agent talking to the news papers and and the FBI about BOGUS info from Russian contacts (could those 'contacts' be related to PUTIN!?!?!) Plus somehow Fusion and the "former" foreign intel agent got that dossier info leaked to many major news orgs. Could that be considered trying to influence an election on ANYONE'S part Shiva?

Or are everyone's hands clean if they say they just SAY 'they didn't know'. Seems Trump could EASILY makes claims of not knowing a lot of things and in most cases i suspect he wouldn't be lying.


Quote:
The Trump Campaign was seeking information illegally obtained directly from Russian intelligence and that illegally obtained information was furnished to the Trump Campaign by Russian intelligence with it's public release using DCLeaks (that the Russian intelligence set up for that purpose) and WikiLeaks. Upon release the Russian trolls and bots began making false claims about what was actually contained in the emails (e.g. there were no actions taken by the DNC to undermine the Bernie Sanders campaign although there were statements about actions could be taken to undermine the Sander's campaign but those proposals were Aejected).
the Trump cmpiaign didn't "seek" out Russian intelligence.
they got a phone call from "a Russian" and stupidly accepted the call.
Former NSA and CIA say the info release publicly was from an internal leaker. the download speeds of the files was too fast to be foreign hacks, and were done locally in D.C.. and wikileaks has never had any credible ties with any foreign gov't.

Quote:
Trump's behavior in Helsinki, where he provided aid and comfort to Vladimir Putin, a known enemy of the United States currently waging an undeclared cyber-war against the United States, when Trump sided with Putin over the unanimous conclusions of all US intelligence agencies is the basis for alleging that Trump is a traitor. Providing aid and comfort to an enemy is a Constitutional basis for treason.
Trump's behavior in Helsinki was pitiful and wrong. but we are not "at war" with Russia... even the cold war is over.
But cyber-war is what many "friends" and allies are waging on us. and we have on others.
Plus there's yet any rock solid Proof of any major Russians 'interference' in our elections. it's all Smoke. as i've said before Hairy Jello has probably posted as much internet trash for Trump and against Hillary as Russia did.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-25-2018, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy

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Originally Posted by Schochite View Post
...
Hey, remember this?


FLASHBACK: Remember When Obama Campaign Was Fined $375,000 for Campaign Reporting Violations AND NO JAIL TIME?

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/08/flashback-remember-when-obama-campaign-was-fined-375000-for-campaign-reporting-violations-and-no-jail-time/

But But But But that was clearly very different...
It wasn't Obama's fault... he didn't know... or authorize it...
Plus RUSSIA!!!!!!
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Job 14:6-8
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Old 08-25-2018, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy

Remember this...
Chinese illegally donated to Bill Clinton and the DNC.
Foreign nation trying to iinfluence the election directly with millions in CASH.
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/...ia-downplayed/

Quote:
this one involving Communist China — that developed during Bill Clinton’s 1996 reelection campaign. The Washington Post reported in 1998 that “evidence gathered in federal surveillance intercepts has indicated that the Chinese government planned to increase China’s influence in the U.S. political process in 1996.”

Many people still believe that a major cover-up of that scandal worked — in part because the media expressed skepticism and devoted only a fraction of resources they are spending on the Trump–Russia story. Network reporters expressed outright skepticism of the story, with many openly criticizing the late senator Fred Thompson, the chair of the Senate investigating committee, for wasting time and money. On June 17, 1997, Katie Couric, then the Today co-anchor, asked the Washington Post’s Bob Woodward about the story: “Are members of the media, do you think, Bob, too scandal-obsessed, looking for something at every corner?”

According to an analysis by the Media Research Center, the news coverage of the congressional hearings on the China scandal in the summer of 1997 were dwarfed by reports on the murder of fashion designer Gianni Versace and the death of Princess Diana.

The Chinese fundraising scandal involving DNC finance vice chairman John Huang first came to light in the final weeks of the 1996 presidential campaign. A former Commerce Department official, Huang was a top fundraiser who scooped up suspect foreign cash for Team Clinton.

A 1998 Senate Government Affairs Committee report on the scandal found “strong circumstantial evidence” that a great deal of foreign money had illegally entered the country in an attempt to influence the 1996 election. The DNC was forced to give back more than $2.8 million in illegal or improper donations from foreign nationals.

The most suspect funds were brought in by Johnny Chung, a bagman for the Asian billionaire Riady family. Chung confessed that at least $35,000 of his donations to the Clinton campaign and the DNC had come from a Chinese aerospace executive — a lieutenant colonel in the Chinese military. Chung said the executive had helped him meet three times with General Ji Shengde, the head of Chinese military intelligence. According to Chung’s testimony, General Shengde had told him: “We really like your president. We hope he will be reelected. I will give you $300,000 U.S. dollars. You can give it to . . . your president and the Democratic party.”

The sprawling fundraising scandal ultimately led to 22 guilty pleas on various violations of election laws.
there were many issues other than white water and Monica Lewinski that SHOULD have been on the table for Clinton's impeachment.
the Clinton Chinese scandal went further than just campaign cash "to influence a U.S. election", there were reports of arms sales, deals and favors to the Chinese Communist as well.
maybe Mueller should investigate Bill Clinton. Any statute of limitations on "TREASON"?
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Old 08-25-2018, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy

1996 Fund-Raising Scandals Bring Stiff Penalty - latimes
LATIMES

1996 Fund-Raising Scandals Bring Stiff Penalty
Politics: The FEC levies a record $719,000 in fines against DNC and other groups for arranging illegal contributions from foreign sources.
September 21, 2002|From the Washington Post
WASHINGTON — The Federal Election Commission disclosed Friday that it has imposed a record-setting $719,000 in fines against participants in the 1996 Democratic Party fund-raising scandals involving contributions from China, Korea and other foreign sources.
The FEC documents describe Democratic fund-raisers who set specific prices for foreign nationals to make illegal campaign contributions in return for meetings with then-President Clinton and Vice President Al Gore. A Democratic finance vice chair, for example, said organizers would have to contribute a total of $100,000 in return for Gore's appearance at a Buddhist temple in Los Angeles.
Those penalized included the Democratic National Committee, the Clinton-Gore campaign, the Buddhist temple and nearly two dozen people and corporations acting as conduits for illegal contributions. All have agreed to pay, according to the documents.
The total in fines would have been significantly higher except that some of the corporations have folded and others were dummy operations, with no assets, set up as conduits for money from China, Venezuela, Canada and other countries. Foreign individuals and organizations are barred from contributing to federal elections. In some cases, foreigners who would have been subject to fines could not be located and served with papers. In other cases, which sometimes produced minor news coverage, the individuals pleaded guilty in criminal cases and are bankrupt.
Treason?
Paid "MEETINGS" with Foreigners??!?!?! not just opartives but the Prez and VP!
where's Mueler when you needum?
impeachable offensives at a historic level?
Plus we've been in a Cyber War with China... and maybe Canada!!!

Canadians trying to influences our elections sanctions should have been forth coming
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Old 08-25-2018, 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy

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But But But But that was clearly very different...
It wasn't Obama's fault... he didn't know... or authorize it...
Plus RUSSIA!!!!!!
yes it was very different. they filed too late on some small donors and got fined heavily for it. I think it was more like 600K all told but won't quibble that.

Trump knew and chose to deceive ; we know because we heard him in his own voice direct Cohen to make the payment
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Old 08-25-2018, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy

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But But But But that was clearly very different...
It wasn't Obama's fault... he didn't know... or authorize it...
Plus RUSSIA!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
yes it was very different. they filed too late on some small donors and got fined heavily for it. I think it was more like 600K all told but won't quibble that.

Trump knew and chose to deceive ; we know because we heard him in his own voice direct Cohen to make the payment
And the investigation may have already led to Russia, however, Mr Rosenstein directed Mr Mueller to pursue anything else that came up during over all Russia investigation
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Old 08-26-2018, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: Trump Implicated in 2016 Election Criminal Conspiracy

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Bill Clinton's impeachment was a circus sideshow of nothing burger. and had no effect on his presidencies other than a public and private inconvenience and a historical black mark at the at the tail end.

Clinton's impeachable sexual issue were DURING his term.
You had a lot to say but I am only cherry picking two points to provide clarity.

Bill Clinton's impeachment also resulted in him being dis-barred. Not that he was ever going to be a practicing attorney again (post-presidential life), but technically the impeachment had an affect on his personal life as in he was no longer allowed to practice the profession he had acquired an education in.

President Clinton was not impeached for anything "sexual", he was impeached for lying under oath. The lies just happened to be about a sexual encounter, had he not lied under oath, he never would have been impeached.
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