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The President & the Executive Branch Discuss Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact at the Political Forums; Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact - Edward-Isaac Dovere - POLITICO This is what obama calls transparency........ If ...

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Old 05-05-2015, 10:00 AM
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Default Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact

Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact - Edward-Isaac Dovere - POLITICO

This is what obama calls transparency........

Quote:
If you want to hear the details of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal the Obama administration is hoping to pass, you’ve got to be a member of Congress, and you’ve got to go to classified briefings and leave your staff and cellphone at the door.

If you’re a member who wants to read the text, you’ve got to go to a room in the basement of the Capitol Visitor Center and be handed it one section at a time, watched over as you read, and forced to hand over any notes you make before leaving.

And no matter what, you can’t discuss the details of what you’ve read.

“It’s like being in kindergarten,” said Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.), who’s become the leader of the opposition to President Barack Obama’s trade agenda. “You give back the toys at the end.”

For those out to sink Obama’s free trade push, highlighting the lack of public information is becoming central to their opposition strategy: The White House isn’t even telling Congress what it’s asking for, they say, or what it’s already promised foreign governments.
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Old 05-06-2015, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact - Edward-Isaac Dovere - POLITICO

This is what obama calls transparency........

Quote:
If you want to hear the details of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal the Obama administration is hoping to pass, you’ve got to be a member of Congress, and you’ve got to go to classified briefings and leave your staff and cellphone at the door.

If you’re a member who wants to read the text, you’ve got to go to a room in the basement of the Capitol Visitor Center and be handed it one section at a time, watched over as you read, and forced to hand over any notes you make before leaving.

And no matter what, you can’t discuss the details of what you’ve read.

“It’s like being in kindergarten,” said Rep. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.), who’s become the leader of the opposition to President Barack Obama’s trade agenda. “You give back the toys at the end.”

For those out to sink Obama’s free trade push, highlighting the lack of public information is becoming central to their opposition strategy: The White House isn’t even telling Congress what it’s asking for, they say, or what it’s already promised foreign governments.
Just one more baseless attack by the Right-Wing on the Obama adminstration.

FACT - There are classified documents associated with the trade deal that members of Congress have been briefed on and may read in a secure location.

Does anyone, even those from the whacko right-wing conspiracy theorist group, suggest that members of Congress should divulge classified documents? Congress, of course, controls the access to the documents and not the White House. The provisions that a member of Congress go to a basement, that they be supervised, and that they cannot discuss the classified documents was created by Congress and not the White House.

FACT - This is literally an extenstion of the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement that was created under the Bush Adminstration.

The specifics of the Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty will be a matter of public record when it's submitted to the US Senate for ratification. Currently it's still in the proposal stage and the Senate is involved in addressing the specifics with the White House. Apparently the whacko right-wing conspiracy theorists don't believe the White House should include the Senate in these negotiations prior to finalization of the treaty provisions.

Excluding irrational complaints related to non-disclosure of sensitive negotiation issues and classified material there are some legitimate concerns with the potential agreement because members of Congress and the public do know what the provisional treaty agreement could contain! Some, including some top Democrats, would like to see some provisions revised based upon legitimate concerns because they know what the treaty might contain when finalized based upon current draft provisions that are available.

Seriously, this is how our government is supposed to work and those trying to find fault with it are fundamentally idiots so wrapped up in partisanship that they can't see anything except "Blame it on Obama" even when he's doing is job appropriately.
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Old 05-06-2015, 09:41 AM
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Default Re: Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact

Not baseless, TTP like the NAFTA and GAT has feature that are BAD for U.S. biz and citizens, but are good for international corps and gov't control.

these issues are not publicly discussed or debated. but gov't and biz elites hash out details in secret closed door invitation only meetings then present it to congress for rubber stamp. the only thing they read is the lofty title of the law.
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Old 05-06-2015, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact

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Not baseless, TTP like the NAFTA and GAT has feature that are BAD for U.S. biz and citizens, but are good for international corps and gov't control.

these issues are not publicly discussed or debated. but gov't and biz elites hash out details in secret closed door invitation only meetings then present it to congress for rubber stamp. the only thing they read is the lofty title of the law.
Senator Lindsey O. Graham and Representative Sander M. Levin have openly addressed monetary concerns with the proposed agreement.

Senator Bernard Sanders and Representatives Henry Waxman, Sander M. Levin, John Conyers, Jim McDermott, John Lewis, Pete Stark, Charles B. Rangel, Earl Blumenauer, and Lloyd Doggett have all openly expressed concerns related to medicine based upon "intellectual property" provisions.

Joseph Stiglitz and Norm Cromsky have both openly expressed concerns that the treaty will exacerbate income inequality.

For something that isn't being publically discussed there appears to be quite a bit of public discussion by both ecomonists and politicians over the proposed treaty agreement.
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Old 05-06-2015, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Just one more baseless attack by the Right-Wing on the Obama adminstration.
An article from the Leftwing Politico with a quote from a Democrat...

Wow...Those "Right-Wingers" are good!...
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Old 05-06-2015, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Just one more baseless attack by the Right-Wing on the Obama adminstration.

FACT - There are classified documents associated with the trade deal that members of Congress have been briefed on and may read in a secure location.

Does anyone, even those from the whacko right-wing conspiracy theorist group, suggest that members of Congress should divulge classified documents? Congress, of course, controls the access to the documents and not the White House. The provisions that a member of Congress go to a basement, that they be supervised, and that they cannot discuss the classified documents was created by Congress and not the White House.

FACT - This is literally an extenstion of the Trans-Pacific Strategic Economic Partnership Agreement that was created under the Bush Adminstration.

The specifics of the Trans-Pacific Partnership treaty will be a matter of public record when it's submitted to the US Senate for ratification. Currently it's still in the proposal stage and the Senate is involved in addressing the specifics with the White House. Apparently the whacko right-wing conspiracy theorists don't believe the White House should include the Senate in these negotiations prior to finalization of the treaty provisions.

Excluding irrational complaints related to non-disclosure of sensitive negotiation issues and classified material there are some legitimate concerns with the potential agreement because members of Congress and the public do know what the provisional treaty agreement could contain! Some, including some top Democrats, would like to see some provisions revised based upon legitimate concerns because they know what the treaty might contain when finalized based upon current draft provisions that are available.

Seriously, this is how our government is supposed to work and those trying to find fault with it are fundamentally idiots so wrapped up in partisanship that they can't see anything except "Blame it on Obama" even when he's doing is job appropriately.
It is possible the go along, get along wing of the Republican party are comfortable with keeping this treaty secret. Per usual, you provide zero proof of your claim that Congress is responsible for the secrecy.

The idea that the same Obama administration that declared Executive Privilege to hide Fast & Furious documents, proclaimed IRS emails had been destroyed without asking about the backup archive, declared information about Benghazi made no difference and that Hillary has disclosed her emails after destroying the originals and backups would never, ever go along with keeping the trade agreement secret. Why just look at what a splendid job they did publishing the actual "framework" for the mythical agreement with Iran.
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Old 05-06-2015, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD
FACT - There are classified documents associated with the trade deal that members of Congress have been briefed on and may read in a secure location.
Irrelevant...

The article points out that this secrecy is for those who want to read the TEXT OF THE PROPOSED BILL...

Has nothing to do with secret documents...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD
Does anyone, even those from the whacko right-wing conspiracy theorist group, suggest that members of Congress should divulge classified documents?
Strawman argument...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD
Congress, of course, controls the access to the documents and not the White House. The provisions that a member of Congress go to a basement, that they be supervised, and that they cannot discuss the classified documents was created by Congress and not the White House.
False...

As stated, this is a PROPOSED BILL...In other words, the Congressional procedures for introducing a bill hasn't happened yet, so Congress has ZERO control over it...
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Old 05-08-2015, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact

When the left unions are not for it then someone should stop and re-read the BS bill...
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Old 05-10-2015, 11:35 AM
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Default Re: Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact

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It is possible the go along, get along wing of the Republican party are comfortable with keeping this treaty secret. Per usual, you provide zero proof of your claim that Congress is responsible for the secrecy.
In point of fact it is under the executive branch that documents are generally classified so that is a valid point but the fact remains that classified documents cannot be released to the public by members of Congress and Congress determines how classified documents are handled by members of Congress.

It's also true that in trying to be open with Congress the White House will discuss very sensitive factors involved in the negotiations for a treaty agreement that should not be spread about with the general public. We could compare this to negotiations between companies where the executives don't publically discuss proprietary corporate information related to the contract negotiations.

We should all be supporting the fact that classified documents and sensitive information related to the treaty negotiations is not being publically disclosed because that is not in the national interests of the United States. It's rather stupid to argue for disclosure when it's not in the best interests of the United States.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The idea that the same Obama administration that declared Executive Privilege to hide Fast & Furious documents, proclaimed IRS emails had been destroyed without asking about the backup archive, declared information about Benghazi made no difference and that Hillary has disclosed her emails after destroying the originals and backups would never, ever go along with keeping the trade agreement secret. Why just look at what a splendid job they did publishing the actual "framework" for the mythical agreement with Iran.
As if we don't know enough about the failure of Operation Fast and Furious, or the IRS scrutiny of organizations that are fundamentally PAC's that wanted to hide their political donors under 501(c)(4) tax provisions, or about Benghazi already. ROFLMAO

Here's what we, the American People, do know.

1) Project Gunrunner lead to two failed operations and should never have been authorized.
2) The tax codes related to 501(c) organizations need to be changed so that political donors cannot remain anonymous under the tax codes.
3) We should not be using US consulates as covers for CIA operations.
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Old 05-10-2015, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Extreme secrecy eroding support for Obama's trade pact

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Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
When the left unions are not for it then someone should stop and re-read the BS bill...
There isn't a treaty to read yet, and yes, once the negotiations lead to a treaty then the provisions need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb and they will be. This is still in the negotiation phase and there really isn't anything to go over yet.
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