Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > Political Forums > The President & the Executive Branch
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

The President & the Executive Branch Discuss Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by joec Actually this a two way street. The House also has refused to bring to a vote ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2014, 10:03 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 18,729
Thanks: 12,162
Thanked 13,081 Times in 7,650 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power

Quote:
Originally Posted by joec View Post
Actually this a two way street. The House also has refused to bring to a vote a number of bills set over from the Senate. Can't blame it all on either house as both are guilty.

Sent by Tapatalk HD on a Kindle HDX.
That is baloney. For years Harry Reid refused to allow the Senate to consider a Federal budget meaning a $3.4 trillion per year organization operating without a budget, just spending. Oh but that is nothing compared to amnesty for illegal aliens.

The Constitution requires spending bills to originate in the House but thanks to Harry's perversion of the rules that was no impediment to Obamacare with its massive built in spending. But Harry dutifully ignores the 50 House passed bills repealing his vote buying scheme. It is a two way street after all.
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2014, 10:14 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 18,729
Thanks: 12,162
Thanked 13,081 Times in 7,650 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
most of the stuff Harry doesnt bring to the floor is cause its a waste of time he knows the votes are not there to override a veto.
You just admitted the "do nothing" Congress Obama constantly whines about and by passes in favor of executive decree is the product of Harry Reid's sabotage. Remember Clinton's welfare reform? He vetoed it twice before signing it into law. Today he touts it as an achievement. But IWON has far too big and delicate an ego to be faced with the prospect of vetoing a bill so Harry spares him the "humiliation" of sharing power with Congress.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2014, 10:16 AM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,429
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,315 Times in 1,841 Posts
Default Re: Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
That is baloney. For years Harry Reid refused to allow the Senate to consider a Federal budget meaning a $3.4 trillion per year organization operating without a budget, just spending. Oh but that is nothing compared to amnesty for illegal aliens.

The Constitution requires spending bills to originate in the House but thanks to Harry's perversion of the rules that was no impediment to Obamacare with its massive built in spending. But Harry dutifully ignores the 50 House passed bills repealing his vote buying scheme. It is a two way street after all.
A few points.

What Congress does is a matter of Congress and not the White House. If you have a problem with how legislation is addressed by Congress then it is a subject for a different thread because the lawsuit by Boehner has no relevance to what Harry Reid may or may not have done.

There hasn't been amnesty granted to any "illegal aliens" but instead there has been deferred deportation hearings. We can't even state that the children brought to the United States by their parents are "illegal" because they have violated no US laws. Their parents violated the immigration laws, not the child, and the child is not guilty of any crime committed by their parents.

As I noted it doesn't appear that Speaker Boehner has "standing" to even file the lawsuit and "standing" is required under the US Constitution. Boehner can't demonstate that he personally suffered in harm by any executive order issued by President Obama and he would have to establish that he personally suffered harm by Obama's actions.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2014, 10:33 AM
joec's Avatar
Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Russell Springs, Kentucky
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,869
Thanks: 65
Thanked 1,246 Times in 874 Posts
Default Re: Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power

Quote:
Originally Posted by loboloco View Post
Unfortunately, the house doesn't have a constitutional duty to consider the bills from the senate. The senate does have a constitutional duty to vote on a budget that is passed by the house. That can't be blamed on the house as the senate has zero authority to send a budget to the house.
Not to sure about that at all. If that is correct the hose has more power than the senate and not an equal body.





Sent by Tapatalk HD on a Kindle HDX.
__________________
Joe

I used to be Apathetic. But Now I Just Don't Care.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to joec For This Useful Post:
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2014, 12:10 PM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 18,729
Thanks: 12,162
Thanked 13,081 Times in 7,650 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
A few points.

What Congress does is a matter of Congress and not the White House. If you have a problem with how legislation is addressed by Congress then it is a subject for a different thread because the lawsuit by Boehner has no relevance to what Harry Reid may or may not have done.

There hasn't been amnesty granted to any "illegal aliens" but instead there has been deferred deportation hearings. We can't even state that the children brought to the United States by their parents are "illegal" because they have violated no US laws. Their parents violated the immigration laws, not the child, and the child is not guilty of any crime committed by their parents.

As I noted it doesn't appear that Speaker Boehner has "standing" to even file the lawsuit and "standing" is required under the US Constitution. Boehner can't demonstate that he personally suffered in harm by any executive order issued by President Obama and he would have to establish that he personally suffered harm by Obama's actions.
The comment is stunning in that it ignores the Constitutional. Our Republic requires power sharing by the President and Congress. A high school civics if civics was still taught in high school would inform students of this fact. But the wildly politicized ignorance displayed by the the former Constitutional law lecturer is accepted without question.

President Obama angrily denounces Congress as if he has royal authority to rewrite laws at his pleasure while Senate Democrats cheer their own irrelevance. IWON lacks the skills and interest to negotiate with Congress so his followers attempt to mask his failure by declaring a radically different arrangement than what is in the Constitution.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2014, 08:13 AM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,429
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,315 Times in 1,841 Posts
Default Re: Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The comment is stunning in that it ignores the Constitutional. Our Republic requires power sharing by the President and Congress. A high school civics if civics was still taught in high school would inform students of this fact. But the wildly politicized ignorance displayed by the the former Constitutional law lecturer is accepted without question.

President Obama angrily denounces Congress as if he has royal authority to rewrite laws at his pleasure while Senate Democrats cheer their own irrelevance. IWON lacks the skills and interest to negotiate with Congress so his followers attempt to mask his failure by declaring a radically different arrangement than what is in the Constitution.
The Constitution provides the means for Congress to address any Constitutional violations by the Office of the President and it is the impeachment process. As the Speaker of the House that legal avenue is certainly available to Boehner.

Remember as well that "legal standing" is also an matter of Constitutionality and Boehner doesn't appear to have "standing" to bring a lawsuit against the President.

Quote:
Standing is the ability of a party to bring a lawsuit in court based upon their stake in the outcome. A party seeking to demonstrate standing must be able to show the court sufficient connection to and harm from the law or action challenged. Otherwise, the court will rule that you "lack standing" to bring the suit and dismiss your case.

There are three constitutional requirements to prove standing:

Injury: The plaintiff must have suffered or imminently will suffer injury. The injury must not be abstract and must be within the zone of interests meant to be regulated or protected under the statutory or constitutional guarantee in question.
Causation: The injury must be reasonably connected to the defendantís conduct.
Redressability: A favorable court decision must be likely to redress the injury.

There are other requirements imposed by judge made law:
A party may only assert his or her own rights and cannot raise the claims of a third party who is not before the court.
A plaintiff cannot sue as a taxpayer who shares a grievance in common with all other taxpayers.
Standing Law & Legal Definition

I don't believe that Boehner can establish that he has personally suffered or will imminently will suffer injury from any of President Obama's executive orders and he can't file a lawsuit based upon an injury to a "third" party.

Can you cite any executive order that Boehner can claim he personally suffered injury from?

Just last year the issue of "standing" was raised by the two cases on same-sex marriage.

In the Prop 8 case the Supreme Court ruled that the defenders of Prop 8 did not have "standing" even though they claimed to be the representatives of the majority of voters in California that passed Prop 8.

In Hollingsworth the issue of standing by the House GOP to defend DOMA was questioned and the Supreme Court ultimately chose to disregard it because a "no standing" decision would have resulted in DOMA Section 3 being unconstitutional in some states but not others.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ShivaTD For This Useful Post:
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2014, 09:14 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Anna Maria Island
Posts: 1,345
Thanks: 140
Thanked 570 Times in 402 Posts
Default Re: Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The Constitution provides the means for Congress to address any Constitutional violations by the Office of the President and it is the impeachment process. As the Speaker of the House that legal avenue is certainly available to Boehner.

Remember as well that "legal standing" is also an matter of Constitutionality and Boehner doesn't appear to have "standing" to bring a lawsuit against the President.



Standing Law & Legal Definition

I don't believe that Boehner can establish that he has personally suffered or will imminently will suffer injury from any of President Obama's executive orders and he can't file a lawsuit based upon an injury to a "third" party.

Can you cite any executive order that Boehner can claim he personally suffered injury from?

Just last year the issue of "standing" was raised by the two cases on same-sex marriage.

In the Prop 8 case the Supreme Court ruled that the defenders of Prop 8 did not have "standing" even though they claimed to be the representatives of the majority of voters in California that passed Prop 8.

In Hollingsworth the issue of standing by the House GOP to defend DOMA was questioned and the Supreme Court ultimately chose to disregard it because a "no standing" decision would have resulted in DOMA Section 3 being unconstitutional in some states but not others.
It will be a tuff nut for Boehner to prove injury. The only lawlessness that might harm him seems to be ObamaCare, but unlike many Americans that have been harmed by ObamaCare, Congress is exempt from its over-reach.

Any other harm caused by Obama's lawlessness is shared by all taxpayers. Bummer for Boehner.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2014, 09:46 AM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,429
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,315 Times in 1,841 Posts
Default Re: Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harvey View Post
It will be a tuff nut for Boehner to prove injury. The only lawlessness that might harm him seems to be ObamaCare, but unlike many Americans that have been harmed by ObamaCare, Congress is exempt from its over-reach.

Any other harm caused by Obama's lawlessness is shared by all taxpayers. Bummer for Boehner.
The only real problem with Obamacare related to an executive order would be the delay in the Employer Mandate from what I can see. I don't believe that Boehner owns an enterprise that's affected by that executive order and I don't see many Republicans that actually support earlier implementation of the Employer Mandate to begin with.

I haven't read of any lawsuits being brought by any enterprise demanding that the employer mandate be immediately implemented as nothing prevents any employer from complying with it. I don't even believe a worker has "standing" for filing a lawsuit because their employer has not provided insurance because the mandate doesn't require the providing of insurance as an enterprise can simply pay a tax (penalty) if it doesn't.

As I've repeatedly stated if Boehner wants to take action against the President it appears that impeachment proceedings is the only option for him under the US Constitution.
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2014, 10:33 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 18,729
Thanks: 12,162
Thanked 13,081 Times in 7,650 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The Constitution provides the means for Congress to address any Constitutional violations by the Office of the President and it is the impeachment process. As the Speaker of the House that legal avenue is certainly available to Boehner.

Remember as well that "legal standing" is also an matter of Constitutionality and Boehner doesn't appear to have "standing" to bring a lawsuit against the President.



Standing Law & Legal Definition

I don't believe that Boehner can establish that he has personally suffered or will imminently will suffer injury from any of President Obama's executive orders and he can't file a lawsuit based upon an injury to a "third" party.

Can you cite any executive order that Boehner can claim he personally suffered injury from?

Just last year the issue of "standing" was raised by the two cases on same-sex marriage.

In the Prop 8 case the Supreme Court ruled that the defenders of Prop 8 did not have "standing" even though they claimed to be the representatives of the majority of voters in California that passed Prop 8.

In Hollingsworth the issue of standing by the House GOP to defend DOMA was questioned and the Supreme Court ultimately chose to disregard it because a "no standing" decision would have resulted in DOMA Section 3 being unconstitutional in some states but not others.
Congress has other means of reining in the President such as cutting off funding, withholding nomination confirmations and veto overides. Of course none of these remedies are operative in the current situation where Senate Democrats act as criminal coconspirators and feckless House Republican leadership devotes itself to meaningless lawsuits.

I note the absence of any attempt to respond to my comment debunking the partisan myth that Congress and the White House are compartmentalized under Obama. Instead the comment devolves into the legalism of standing as a distraction from Obama's failure to establish a working relationship with the House. Your reluctance to recognize Obama's failure is understandable but not unoticed.

BTW, the SCOTUS standing decision denying standing to Proposition 8 defenders is one of the most blatant power grabs for a judiciary addicted to its own dictatorial impulses. The decision not only turns state constitutions into a playground for judicial activists serving special interest groups and their own predictions it destroys the referendum process as a means of direct democracy. State governors and attorneys general can simply withhold defense of any challenge to a a successful referendum before a sympathetic Federal judge. My goodness what progress we have made.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AZRWinger For This Useful Post:
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-27-2014, 11:45 AM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,429
Thanks: 1,492
Thanked 2,315 Times in 1,841 Posts
Default Re: Boehner plans to file suit against Obama over alleged abuse of executive power

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Congress has other means of reining in the President such as cutting off funding, withholding nomination confirmations and veto overides. Of course none of these remedies are operative in the current situation where Senate Democrats act as criminal coconspirators and feckless House Republican leadership devotes itself to meaningless lawsuits.

I note the absence of any attempt to respond to my comment debunking the partisan myth that Congress and the White House are compartmentalized under Obama. Instead the comment devolves into the legalism of standing as a distraction from Obama's failure to establish a working relationship with the House. Your reluctance to recognize Obama's failure is understandable but not unoticed.

BTW, the SCOTUS standing decision denying standing to Proposition 8 defenders is one of the most blatant power grabs for a judiciary addicted to its own dictatorial impulses. The decision not only turns state constitutions into a playground for judicial activists serving special interest groups and their own predictions it destroys the referendum process as a means of direct democracy. State governors and attorneys general can simply withhold defense of any challenge to a a successful referendum before a sympathetic Federal judge. My goodness what progress we have made.
Yes, the Congress does have other recourse when dealing with the president.

Generally speaking thoughout the history of the United States there has been a part of Congress that agreed with the President on issues and a part that didn't. There is absolutely nothing different under the Obama Adminstration than any other presidential adminstration I'm aware of. This is generally referred to as "Partisanship" and the Courts have never been willing to become involved in issues directly related to partisanship.

The "People" have never been authorized to violated the US Constitution based upon the referendum process.

There is a documentary from HBO called "The Case Against 8" that is really worth watching.

The Case Against 8 l HBO Documentary Films l HBO
__________________
"I always had a rule, if a restaurant is dirty on the outside, it's dirty on the inside." Donald Trump

"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
abuse, against, alleged, boehner, executive, file, house, obama, over, plans, power, says, sue, suit

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0