Did Obama say that taxes are at a historic low, or did he say he hasn't raised taxes?

That's what I thought...



Myth... Do you actually believe that?

I realize that article took those figures and spun them into exactly what you wanted to hear and what you would like everyone to believe, but it doesn't change reality.

That reality is, in 2 years time Obama has run up deficits of $1.4 trillion and $1.2 trillion, and this years deficit is expected to be a record breaker, exceeding $1.5 trillion.

Now I have a question for you... Are you going to address the actual subject of this thread, or are you going to continue to try and change the subject by posting more off-topic crap like this?

well that depends on if you're a smoker or an indoor tanner or fall into any of the other taxes that have been or are going to be raised on schedule according to the healthcare/insurance bill now doesn't it?

http://www.atr.org/files/files/02071...Taxes_Once.pdf

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"Free people are not equal & equal people are not free." --- Mackinac Center for Public Policy

So then what really happened was Obama borrowed a bunch of money from the Chinese; a big chunk of which he used to give people a temporary gift of small tax breaks. He did that with one hand. With the other he created larger tax increases which he means to be permanent. He also tried to get larger tax increases to pay for the stupid debt he incurred giving the small temporary cuts. Those increases were stopped by the GOP when the Dems tried to sneak them through in the lame duck session.

You would like people not to look behind the curtain, and see all that. In fact, more exactly, what you'd really like people who notice any of this to do is just...

No "myths" ...just the facts.



"Change the subject?"

Were you just cracking a joke....or were you trying to be serious?

The title of the thread is..... Obama’s Claim That He Did Not Raise Taxes Is Rejected As ‘Blatantly False’ by Taxpaye

My posts/links were addressing Obama raising taxes (and what he spent on tax cuts).

And then you bring up the deficit.

Now who is the one.......... changing the subject?

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Where did he "borrow money from the Chinese?"
You do understand don't you, that US Treasury Bonds can be purchased by anyone.....don't you?


My statement was aimed at those people (approximately 35% according to some polls) that Obama raised their taxes.

Here's a little quiz put out by the Christian Science Monitor.

Let's see how much propaganda you've been filled with.

I know a lot of folks who get mad and won't finish it, because they don't like to be shown how far off from the truth they've been led.

Quiz (click here)

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Read your own words... The title and subject of this thread is:

Obama’s Claim That He Did Not Raise Taxes Is Rejected As ‘Blatantly False’ by Taxpayer Watchdog

It isn't about how much Americans actually pay in taxes, or how todays tax rates compare to other years, which is what the first story you linked to addresses... Nor is it about the level of government spending that's taken place during the Obama administration, which is the subject of the second story you linked to.

Neither one of those stories supported, refuted, or even addressed Obama's claim in his interview with Bill O'Reilly, that he had not raised taxes since becoming president. If you believe I'm mistaken and they did in fact address that issue, please copy the relevant excerpts and post them here.

If there are no such excerpts that address this issue in those stories, then there is only one possible conclusion that can be rendered... Your post was off-topic and whether intentional on your part or not, doesn't change the fact it served to steer the conversation in an alternative direction... aka "changed the subject"

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Even though your post was off-topic, I still decided to address the second article you linked to. I felt it attempted to convince people that the Obama administration hasn't engaged in record government spending, which resulted in record federal budget deficits.

Many of the figures used in that article are incorrect, deceiving or simply outdated. For example, when addressing the stimulus package, instead of using the original $787 billion, or revised $814 billion, which is the actual money that is ear marked and set aside to be spent, they instead used the $340 billion that the Government Accountability Office reported as so far having been allocated. That alone represents nearly half a trillion dollars that wasn't taken into account.

You know the old saying that falling off the roof of a 100 story building isn't the problem, because it isn't the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop when you hit the ground that kills you? Well it's the same thing with government spending... It isn't how much in dollars they spend, the actual number amount itself, that's the problem. The problem is how much more money they spend than we actually have in the US Treasury. aka, the size of the deficit. That's why I brought it up.

For example, Obama's 2011 spending budget is estimated to be around 3.6 trillion dollars, which means we'll have an estimated 1.5 trillion dollar budget deficit. Obama could spend 20 trillion dollars next year, 6 times as much as this year, and as long as there's 20 trillion dollars in the treasury to cover it, nobody would give a damn.

Even if you put the deficit aside and look at the actual numbers, they show something totally different than what that article is implying. They attempt to give people the false impression that Obama really isn't a big spender like he's portrayed as, when he's all that and more.

The biggest yearly spending budget Bush ever had as president was 3.1 trillion his last year in office, while the 2 Obama budgets were 3.6 trillion and 3.8 trillion. The last 4 years Bush was in office, he increased the government spending budget by an average of 4.4% per year, while Obama in his first 2 years has more than doubled that figure, increasing the budget by an average of 9.6% a year.

Those sir are the facts... Spin them all you want, but it doesn't change the bottom line reality that Obama has:

1. Done a record amount of government spending.
2. Given us record federal budget deficits
3. Increased the nations debt by a whopping 30% in just 2 short years.

I'm not sure how much clearer it can be.


The topic was on how Obama has raised American citizens taxes.

Whereas, the tax rate has not changed and for a lot of people...has actually went down.

Now if you were to say that Obama has raised the tax on certain commodities...you would be correct.

But, the whole intent of the original post was to try and use those specific taxes....as a brush to paint broadly.



As I have pointed out, it wasn't off-topic and in fact....is very germane to the allegations and assumptions thrown out by the OP's original post.



And where did you see anyone refuting that we have increased the deficit and national debt, as a result of this recession?

The big questions are, WHY & HOW?

And therein lies the deception, by those who don't like Obama.

If you look closely at the second link, you would have seen this.



Look, there's no question that we cannot continue the current trend of yearly deficits.....resulting in the increased national debt.

I don't think anyone would argue that we could.

What we can argue about, is whether the deficit spending at this point was necessary and will it result in a strengthened economy that will refill the federal coffers and reduce the deficit in future years.

I think it was....and will.

Using the actions of the last few years, in a time of potentially grave consequences and projecting it as a guaranteed yearly exercise....is being unfair.

As is thinking that a strong economy can't push the national debt back down, through increased tax collections from strong businesses.

Pretending that the deficits and national debt are set in stone and cannot change....is simply being disingenuous.

In fact, if Obama isn't reelected, I predict that the actions taken now will..... result in the next guy/lady looking like a hero as the economy recovers.

And that is what I think a lot of the smart Repub's are worried about.

They don't want Obama being that person.


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Who's talking about income taxes?

Obama didn't say that he "didn't raise income taxes once", he said he “didn’t raise taxes once”. If you read the article, it quotes him in the very first sentence and addresses some of the taxes he passed in the second paragraph.

Your article is irrelevant.


No, it was about Obama saying he has never raised taxes period.

The federal government not only imposes income taxes on the people, they also have "excise" taxes and "payroll" taxes, both of which Obama has imposed on "American citizens".

Here's a quote from the article you must have overlooked:

“That tax increases Obama has signed into law have invariably been permanent. In fact, Obama signed into law $7 in permanent tax hikes for every $1 in permanent tax cuts,”

Income taxes, yes... But this isn't about just income taxes, it's about all taxes.

Who pays those taxes? Would that be the American citizens who purchase those commodities?

No it wasn't... It was to show that Obama's claim that he hadn't raised taxes once was not accurate.


No it wasn't... That would be like claiming the price of American made cars haven't gone up in the last 2 years, by showing sales figures from Ford, while ignoring Chevy and Chrysler who have both raised their prices each of the last 2 years.

I didn't... I merely showed the deficit because there is only one way a budget deficit can occur.... That's by the government SPENDING more money than they have. Your second off-topic article is claiming that Obama isn't the big spender people claim he is, when the numbers say different.

So what? That still doesn't account for Obama raising government spending by nearly 10% a year in his first 2 years in office. That article was trying to say that the spending was all out of budgetary necessity, and it would have been the same no matter who was in office... That's a flat out lie.





Dude... You are making my point for me.

All this crap is completely OFF-TOPIC and has nothing to do with Obama claiming he hasn't once raised taxes.

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Well let's see what the common sense test shows since we just did our taxes.

Same home, same deductions, same pay scale. Nothing has changed for us in the last four years.

Three of those years we paid 500 bucks, we keep our money and prefer to pay a small amount at the end. The goal is to be dead even and not owe or get a return.

This year we owe 1,500.

I'm going to say taxes went up.

Why did they go up?

What is the difference?