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Polls Discuss The Wall v Border Security at the General Forum; Originally Posted by saltwn I think the whole thing is ridiculous no matter how you feel about border security. Both ...

View Poll Results: Should House/Senate Focus on:
CBP Recommendations for Border Security 3 75.00%
President Trump's demand for a Border Wall 1 25.00%
Voters: 4. This poll is closed

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2019, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: The Wall v Border Security

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I think the whole thing is ridiculous no matter how you feel about border security. Both sides basically agree. They need walls or fence; they have walls or fences. There is some money there to repair and build more. Five more billion dollars could be appropriated but it is not necessary. Either way there will not be much more wall built because there is not anywhere to put it. They all know this. McConnell, Pelosi, Schummer, McCarthy and the President.
They are just trying to stir up the respective bases for this November and next.
Wrong again. The $5 billion would be used to build around 100 miles of new wall or fencing or barriers where none exist. Democrats argue that no barrier is better.

The controversy is all about partisan Democrats Resistance to Trump. Hawaiian vacation at a luxury resort, a trip to Puerto Rico rubbing shoulders with high tech firms in line to get fat contracts from an electronic fence project and a European junket on the US taxpayer along with an arrogant refusal to listen to any information from US officials responsible for border security or even to let staff meet with the VP expose the Democrats disinterest in solving the problem.
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Old 02-01-2019, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: The Wall v Border Security

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Trump should be worried about real threats like Russia, China, N Korea, and ISIS instead of non-threats like our Southern border.
These are indeed, "real threats." (And I would add Iran to the mix.)

But that does not establish that our porous Southern order is not a problem.

Note: I do think that President Trump is taking Russia seriously. (Admittedly, his summit with Vladimir Putin last July was not his finest hour; but his recent plan to jettison the INF Treaty--which Russia does not appear to be abiding by, anyway--is indicative of his sternness in this regard.)
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2019, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: The Wall v Border Security

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The $5 billion would be used to build around 100 miles of new wall or fencing or barriers where none exist. Democrats argue that no barrier is better.
The $5.7 billion is just the a "down payment" on Trump's $20 billion to $70 billion wall between the US and Mexico. Trump has no idea about how many miles of wall (as in a solid WALL and not fencing like the existing barriers - He clarified that yesterday) and has stated 500 miles down to 250 miles. I've not heard him refer to 100 miles. No one knows for sure where any of this would be built but it would certainly be where none exists and almost certainly where none is needed according to the CBP.

Nancy Pelosi stated yesterday that there are requests from CBP for some very limited additions to the existing barrier fencing that are under consideration in the House-Senate committee. Democrats are open to these additional requests for fencing by the CBP

Democrats and Republicans will not have any difficulty on reaching an agreement to improve border security. The problem is that it won't contain Trump's Wall because Trump's wall isn't about border security.
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Old 02-02-2019, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: The Wall v Border Security

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The $5.7 billion is just the a "down payment" on Trump's $20 billion to $70 billion wall between the US and Mexico. Trump has no idea about how many miles of wall (as in a solid WALL and not fencing like the existing barriers - He clarified that yesterday) and has stated 500 miles down to 250 miles. I've not heard him refer to 100 miles. No one knows for sure where any of this would be built but it would certainly be where none exists and almost certainly where none is needed according to the CBP.

Nancy Pelosi stated yesterday that there are requests from CBP for some very limited additions to the existing barrier fencing that are under consideration in the House-Senate committee. Democrats are open to these additional requests for fencing by the CBP

Democrats and Republicans will not have any difficulty on reaching an agreement to improve border security. The problem is that it won't contain Trump's Wall because Trump's wall isn't about border security.
As stated earlier the $5.7 billion will be used to build roughly 100 miles of NEW border barriers. Once the fences and barriers went up in the San Diego and Yuma sectors illegal crossings dropped by 90%. Let's say the estimated decline is 45%, that's still cutting illegal crossings by nearly half. But Democrats remain irrationally opposed to extending the network of barriers.

The same Nancy Pelosi who is blindly opposed to building new barriers isn't a reliable source of information about the plan to build new barriers. Even Obama's border patrol chief, fired by Trump, supports building new wall. Craven partisan Pelosi tells you what you want to hear so it must be true.
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Old 02-02-2019, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: The Wall v Border Security

I'd rather have border security than a wall.
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Old 02-02-2019, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: The Wall v Border Security

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I'd rather have border security than a wall.
Just so you understand. A wall is part of border security. Without barriers in strategic locations, it is much harder to secure the border. Meaning border security is much weaker, and harder to achieve without walls.
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Old 02-03-2019, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: The Wall v Border Security

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
These are indeed, "real threats." (And I would add Iran to the mix.)

But that does not establish that our porous Southern order is not a problem.

Note: I do think that President Trump is taking Russia seriously. (Admittedly, his summit with Vladimir Putin last July was not his finest hour; but his recent plan to jettison the INF Treaty--which Russia does not appear to be abiding by, anyway--is indicative of his sternness in this regard.)
Our Southern border isn't all that porous historically speaking. When the 2006 authorization to build limited pedestrian and vehicle barriers about a million people a year were unlawfully crossing the US-Mexico border. The 650+ miles of fences in key border areas plus additional CBP agents and the employment of electronic surveillance equipment has cut that to less than a third and tens of thousands of those that are unlawfully crossing the border are refugees with children that should have been allowed into the United States when they reached a US port of entry. Allowing the lawful entry of refugees seeking asylum would be the most effective current means of reducing illegal border crossing. Portraying refugees from Central America as a threat is overt racism because they're not making the trip to illegally enter the United States. They make the arduous trip to lawfully enter the United States.

Democrats and Republicans from the House and Senate are negotiating border security ahead of the Feb 15th deadline. They're not negotiating Trump's wall because it's not a part of the improvements the CBP has recommended for improvements to our border security. Additional physical barriers are being discussed but they're not a part of Trump's Wall and certainly don't cost $5.7 billion.

Withdrawal from the INF Treaty was for Putin's benefit.

If you have a law and someone isn't complying with it you don't repeal the law to accommodate that lawbreaker. That would be stupid and yet that's exactly what Trump has done by withdrawing from the INF Treaty. It allows Russia to produce the tactical nuclear weapons delivery systems (that the US doesn't require) with impunity. President Trump just made Russia's production of these nuclear weapons "legal" by the US withdrawal.

President Trump had numerous options that would have been effective in forcing Putin to comply. The most effective is the imposition of additional economic sanctions.

Instead of imposing economic sanctions President Trump is removing economic sanctions that targeted Putin's oligarchs.

Everything President Trump is doing related to Russia benefits Putin without any benefit to the United States. Condoning Russian (Putin's) corruption of our elections. Allowing Russia (Putin) to produce tactical nuclear weapons with impunity. Pandering to N Korea, a Russian (Putin) ally by ignoring N Korea's ongoing and uninterrupted nuclear weapons program. Threatening US withdrawal from NATO is something Putin could only imagine in his wildest dreams. Formally claiming that Canada, Mexico and the EU represent a threat to our national security by imposing tariffs is a Putin backed initiative being carried out by President Trump.

In one sense the claim that President Trump is taking Russia seriously is correct. President Trump is taking Russia seriously by doing everything in the book that benefits Putin's tyrannical regime in Russia while doing nothing for the benefit of the United States.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-03-2019, 09:08 AM
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Default Re: The Wall v Border Security

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Originally Posted by loboloco View Post
Just so you understand. A wall is part of border security. Without barriers in strategic locations, it is much harder to secure the border. Meaning border security is much weaker, and harder to achieve without walls.
The CBP has recommended additional fencing in a limited number of strategic locations along the US-Mexico border and those locations are under discussion between the House and Senate. For example the San Diego sector has requested five more miles of fencing to extend it's current fencing along the border. Five more miles of fencing, at an estimated cost of about $7.5 million (Corps of Engineers estimate) is not $5.7 billion worth of concrete walls that Trump is demanding.

Improved border security is the focus of the House and Senate negotiations and not Trump's wall.
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"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
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