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Polls Discuss Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real? at the General Forum; It seems unremarkable that businesses would use an all-inclusive term, so as to curry favor with as many customers as ...

View Poll Results: Do you believe the "War on Christmas" is real?
Yes 7 53.85%
No 6 46.15%
Voters: 13. This poll is closed

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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2017, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

It seems unremarkable that businesses would use an all-inclusive term, so as to curry favor with as many customers as possible.

I am of the decided belief, however, that typical usage should be shaped, in very large part, by the dominant culture.

Egalitarians, on the other hand, appear to believe that all groups should be equally represented--regardless of size.

And once again, I will point out: It seems to be mostly atheists--not members of other religious groups--who are offended by the traditional greeting this time of year.
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:21 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Foundit66
The only thing you want to hear is "war on Christmas / christianity".
Nothing else makes sense to you... 
Your failure to comprehend is not my fault. 

Foundit66
As I have pointed out numerous times, it is not just atheists who are saying "Happy Holidays".
But you want to proclaim it's all a vast "war on Christmas" conspiracy theory. 

Mr. Wonder from various post in both "war on Christmas" threads
STRAWMAN: Sheesh you can't help yourself.
Mr. Wonder: "for me one thing is interesting. In the other thread IN MY 1st post i said that the term "war on Christmas" was hyperbolic. but that comment was consistently ignored to attack a strawman." Post # 39

Mr. Wonder
"Happy Holidays" doesn't really rank on the scale as a serious issue. Again I say it's NOT a war. but it is something and may simply be a minor symptom of a larger problem.

Mr. Wonder
it’s not a “war” but what should we call it?
Litigation is not HAPPY EMBRACE, or CELEBRATION, or Benign Tolerance, it’s something else.

Mr. Wonder
Did i say "epidemic"? no. Did I say "War". no.

Mr. Wonder
is it a WAR? no. Is it a MAJOR issue in the world today. uh no. Is it an Epidemic, well no. i don't think so, but it IS in the air and has been for a LONG time.


Foundit66
So, are you saying CHRISTIANS ARE ALSO INVOLVED in this supposed war on Christmas? Is that your position?
…Nothing in my statement repudiates a hyperbolic acknowledgement...
…Nobody has said you claim it is a literal war. So stop falling back on that line that nobody has any confusion on.
Uh WTH dude?

Hyperbolic: of, relating to, or marked by language that exaggerates or overstates the truth : of, relating to, or marked by hyperbole .

not a "literal war”?! sheesh man why are you making up crap to debate.
OF COURSE it’s not a literal war, and it’s not a even metaphorical war, that IS what i mean. Sheesh.
All you have to do is STOP saying I think it’s a “war” of ANY KIND. It’s a STRAWMAN when you do so when it comes to me on this issue. And i’m not talking about a LITERAL Strawman.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2017, 07:40 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
...
And also, as I've pointed out, several liberals (more than the # of conservatives) on these two "war on Christmas" threads have been happy to throw out the "Merry Christmas" greeting.
Amusingly, the number of conservatives willing to return the greeting has been limited. Too busy taking offense at the idea of others saying "Happy Holidays", I guess...
several people have mentioned that they aren't talking about issues with Christmas of the people on this board but we're talking about the issue in America at large.
But your comment along this line has come up several times and I've ignored it. becasue, well, I'm not sure we should be getting into a contest of WHO can/does say Merry Christmas the most. Frankly seems a bit insincere in the midst of an unnecessarily heated discussion.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Well MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU THEN!
YES, I say merry Christmas more often than you and your team does,
Don't be so sure, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas!!
Merry Christmas to the infinite power to everyone around the world!!
....

just seems to me If it's going to be said these threads probably aren't the place for it.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2017, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
Christians make up the vast majority of those wanting to wish general season greetings, but you want to blindly declare it's all about hating christmas / christianity???
Christians make up the vast majority .. but the country still has, high divorce rates, legal homosexual marriage, legal Abortion, a thriving porn industry, unacknowledged racism, unneeded poverty, Trump and Hillary were presidential candidates etc etc..
Sadly there's a LOT of thing that many Christians do that don't align with what we claim to believe. "Happy Holidays" doesn't really rank on the scale as a serious issue. Again I say it's NOT a war. but it is something and may simply be a minor symptom of a larger problem. but to claim that Atheist haven't had any influence in the changes is just BS. there aren't that many TRANS in the U.S. or Canada but they've manage to get bathroom rules changed and challenged across north america, and managed to get PRONOUN laws changed in NYC and Canada that have people in FEAR of offending. same principal applies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
So instead of obfuscating the question and its point, ANSWER IT.
Since there are a great many Christians who say "Happy Holidays", DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY ARE MOTIVATED BY INSTIGATING A HYPERBOLIC ATTACK ON CHRISTMAS / CHRISTIANITY???
I did answer the question. if you'd read my post without automatically taking everything i say in the worse possible light you'd see it.
but i'll expand on it for clarity.
look, i think Some Christians are likely acting on fears/concerns (see my analogy to Trans bathrooms etc)
Some Theologically Liberal "Christians" do in fact delight in downplaying Christmas and Christianity in an attempt to seem less dogmatic and more egalitarian.
Some "Christians" are like Hillary n Bill Clinton and the Obamas they'll say "Happy Holidays" because it politically correct.
Some "Christians" are more concerned about money and not offending...or being more "inclusive" so they'll say whatever they have too, depending on which way the wind blows.
Trump says he's a Christian who's never asked God for forgiveness for anything. But somehow he feel compelled to say "Merry Christmas" for some reason.
As I Said "CHRISTIANS" do A LOT of things. And As I Said it's probably a symptom of a larger problem.
(BTW weren't you the one complaining about monolithic characterizations of groups (post#51))
BUT the Christmas issues of stopping, plays, nativity scenes, religious references, saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas by formal and informal directives was not INSTIGATED by Christians. It wasn't instigated by massive Kwanzaa celebrants complaints, or hot protest by Jews. Just a small group of people Unitarians, a few Jews and some diligent atheist have sparked and fanned the changed the air.
...as with transexuals and bathroom policy...
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2017, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Again, people use this issue to bash atheists... Assuming that the problem is caused by atheists...
Ignoring when CHRISTIANS are the ones doing it. Ignoring any actual statistics on its prevalence in the first place...

The previous study showed 9% prefer "Happy Holidays". Almost 1 in 10.
Atheists make up less than 1%. So that means (even assuming 100%
of atheists prefer "Happy Holidays") EIGHT TIMES as many non-atheists say it than atheists.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.dac8098e7e1a

Instead of acknowledging a simple preference with no intent to offend, some right-wingers INSIST on taking offense.
The right has its own version of "politically correct" it refuses to acknowledge is exactly that.
This is one prime example.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
several people have mentioned that they aren't talking about issues with Christmas of the people on this board but we're talking about the issue in America at large.
That's amusing but doesn't explain why you and others on the right won't say "Merry Christmas" in reply?
You're too busy with your poutrage.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
But your comment along this line has come up several times and I've ignored it. becasue, well, I'm not sure we should be getting into a contest of WHO can/does say Merry Christmas the most. Frankly seems a bit insincere in the midst of an unnecessarily heated discussion.
Cause it's entirely UN-CHRIST-LIKE to express sincere greetings even when there is a disagreement?


Your problem throughout this discussion is you demand to assume people's motives regardless of what they state.
And you have absolutely no appreciation for how you are inventing a problem in your mind...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Well MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU THEN!
ROFLMAO!
You mock the sincerity of others, but then YOU EXPLICITLY use emojis which demonstrate IT IS YOU who are not sincere...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
YES, I say merry Christmas more often than you and your team does,
You mean to say YOU ASSUME you do that.

And even throwing it out there demonstrates even more YOU ARE NOT MOTIVATED by Christmas cheer, but rather motivated by spiteful competition and poutrage...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Don't be so sure, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas!!
Merry Christmas to the infinite power to everyone around the world!!
....
just seems to me If it's going to be said these threads probably aren't the place for it.
It's the perfect place for people to express that even though we have a disagreement, we are not taking it personal.
The only problem with that statement is YOU ARE taking it personal.
And you still blame others for your assumptions and your reactions to your assumptions...
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Last edited by foundit66; 12-21-2017 at 11:52 AM..
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:57 AM
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Post Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Foundit66
The only thing you want to hear is "war on Christmas / christianity".
Nothing else makes sense to you... 
Your failure to comprehend is not my fault. 

Foundit66
As I have pointed out numerous times, it is not just atheists who are saying "Happy Holidays".
But you want to proclaim it's all a vast "war on Christmas" conspiracy theory. 

Mr. Wonder from various post in both "war on Christmas" threads
STRAWMAN: Sheesh you can't help yourself.
Mr. Wonder: "for me one thing is interesting. In the other thread IN MY 1st post i said that the term "war on Christmas" was hyperbolic. but that comment was consistently ignored to attack a strawman." Post # 39

Mr. Wonder
"Happy Holidays" doesn't really rank on the scale as a serious issue. Again I say it's NOT a war. but it is something and may simply be a minor symptom of a larger problem.

Mr. Wonder
it’s not a “war” but what should we call it?
Litigation is not HAPPY EMBRACE, or CELEBRATION, or Benign Tolerance, it’s something else.

Mr. Wonder
Did i say "epidemic"? no. Did I say "War". no.

Mr. Wonder
is it a WAR? no. Is it a MAJOR issue in the world today. uh no. Is it an Epidemic, well no. i don't think so, but it IS in the air and has been for a LONG time.


Foundit66
So, are you saying CHRISTIANS ARE ALSO INVOLVED in this supposed war on Christmas? Is that your position?
…Nothing in my statement repudiates a hyperbolic acknowledgement...
…Nobody has said you claim it is a literal war. So stop falling back on that line that nobody has any confusion on.
Uh WTH dude?

Hyperbolic: of, relating to, or marked by language that exaggerates or overstates the truth : of, relating to, or marked by hyperbole .

not a "literal war”?! sheesh man why are you making up crap to debate.
OF COURSE it’s not a literal war, and it’s not a even metaphorical war, that IS what i mean. Sheesh.
You are so lost in combat mode you don't recognize I AM AGREEING WITH YOU and trying to move any additional needlessly redundant "speaking hyperbolic" repetition out of the discussion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
All you have to do is STOP saying I think it’s a “war” of ANY KIND. It’s a STRAWMAN when you do so when it comes to me on this issue. And i’m not talking about a LITERAL Strawman.
You started a thread using that phrase and now you object to me acknowledging you used that phrase (HYPERBOLICALLY)?

Good GAWD man.
Can you appreciate how desperate you are to take offense?

How about you give a phrase you are willing to own up to, mmkay?
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:09 PM
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Post Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
I did answer the question. if you'd read my post without automatically taking everything i say in the worse possible light you'd see it.
but i'll expand on it for clarity.
look, i think Some Christians are likely acting on fears/concerns (see my analogy to Trans bathrooms etc)
Some Theologically Liberal "Christians" do in fact delight in downplaying Christmas and Christianity in an attempt to seem less dogmatic and more egalitarian.
Some "Christians" are like Hillary n Bill Clinton and the Obamas they'll say "Happy Holidays" because it politically correct.
Some "Christians" are more concerned about money and not offending...or being more "inclusive" so they'll say whatever they have too, depending on which way the wind blows.
You just keep inventing stories in your head to continue to preserve your poutrage, dontcha...

IS THERE ANY CONSEQUENCE to people saying "Merry Christmas"?
The honest answer is NO.

But you have INVENTED a claim to fear which is absolute b.s.
Early Christians were killed for their faith.
Modern Christians have invented their own fears for why they can't say "Merry Christmas", EVEN WHEN THE VAST MAJORITY IS SAYING IT.


Your belief on this is a perfect example of how you can't reason somebody out of a position that they never "reasoned" themselves into in the first place.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Trump says he's a Christian who's never asked God for forgiveness for anything. But somehow he feel compelled to say "Merry Christmas" for some reason.
You realize that Christmas (Santa, presents, eggnog, caroling) is FILLED with non-religious (or even pagan) traditions that are continued "just because", right?

Atheists (and others) don't need to marginalize the season.
Christians (75% of the population) have done it all to themselves.
And you just want to blame others for it and refuse to recognize the obvious.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
As I Said "CHRISTIANS" do A LOT of things. And As I Said it's probably a symptom of a larger problem.
(BTW weren't you the one complaining about monolithic characterizations of groups (post#51))
Are you for real right now?
The question I asked has nothing to do with monolithic characterizations.
I simply pointed out THERE ARE CHRISTIANS INVOLVED in the "Happy Holidays" usage. I didn't claim all or even most.

WTF am I supposedly not adhering to when you point out with your last sentence above?
Let me guess. This will be yet another inconvenient question you ignore...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
BUT the Christmas issues of stopping, plays, nativity scenes, religious references, saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas by formal and informal directives was not INSTIGATED by Christians.
It wasn't instigated by massive Kwanzaa celebrants complaints, or hot protest by Jews. Just a small group of people Unitarians, a few Jews and some diligent atheist have sparked and fanned the changed the air.
...as with transexuals and bathroom policy...
SERIOUSLY man.
You can't see things for what they really are. You always have to find some villain to blame.

Christianity is losing members.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/u...christian.html
And it's not because of an attack from outside.
It's primarily because of Christians leaving because of ridiculous b.s. from within the church.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...stians/519135/
Also, Christians attacks on others (which you are perpetuating) being one other major factor labeled.

The real problem here is you make up excuses and refuse to find out the answers for yourself!


Here's another question for you to ignore.
Can you show any statistics documenting a very real statistical reason for Christians not saying "Merry Christmas" because they are afraid of retribution???
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2017, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Weirdest dang thing, I just went to the Mall to finish my Christmas shopping. I paid attention this time because of this thread. I heard 23 Merry Christmases and 1 Happy Holidays. Yea, that is just like the early Christians being fed to the lions in Rome. Just like that.
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Old 12-21-2017, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Again, people use this issue to bash atheists... Assuming that the problem is caused by atheists...
Ignoring when CHRISTIANS are the ones doing it. Ignoring any actual statistics on its prevalence in the first place...
The previous study showed 9% prefer "Happy Holidays". Almost 1 in 10.
Atheists make up less than 1%. So that means (even assuming 100%
of atheists prefer "Happy Holidays") EIGHT TIMES as many non-atheists say it than atheists.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.dac8098e7e1a
Instead of acknowledging a simple preference with no intent to offend, some right-wingers INSIST on taking offense.
The right has its own version of "politically correct" it refuses to acknowledge is exactly that.
This is one prime example.
That's amusing but doesn't explain why you and others on the right won't say "Merry Christmas" in reply?
You're too busy with your poutrage.
Cause it's entirely UN-CHRIST-LIKE to express sincere greetings even when there is a disagreement?

Your problem throughout this discussion is you demand to assume people's motives regardless of what they state.
And you have absolutely no appreciation for how you are inventing a problem in your mind...
ROFLMAO!
You mock the sincerity of others, but then YOU EXPLICITLY use emojis which demonstrate IT IS YOU who are not sincere...
You mean to say YOU ASSUME you do that.
And even throwing it out there demonstrates even more YOU ARE NOT MOTIVATED by Christmas cheer, but rather motivated by spiteful competition and poutrage...
It's the perfect place for people to express that even though we have a disagreement, we are not taking it personal.
The only problem with that statement is YOU ARE taking it personal.
And you still blame others for your assumptions and your reactions to your assumptions...
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You are so lost in combat mode you don't recognize I AM AGREEING WITH YOU and trying to move any additional needlessly redundant "speaking hyperbolic" repetition out of the discussion.
You started a thread using that phrase and now you object to me acknowledging you used that phrase (HYPERBOLICALLY)?
Good GAWD man.
Can you appreciate how desperate you are to take offense?
How about you give a phrase you are willing to own up to, mmkay?
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You just keep inventing stories in your head to continue to preserve your poutrage, dontcha...
IS THERE ANY CONSEQUENCE to people saying "Merry Christmas"?
The honest answer is NO.
But you have INVENTED a claim to fear which is absolute b.s.
Early Christians were killed for their faith.
Modern Christians have invented their own fears for why they can't say "Merry Christmas", EVEN WHEN THE VAST MAJORITY IS SAYING IT.

Your belief on this is a perfect example of how you can't reason somebody out of a position that they never "reasoned" themselves into in the first place.
You realize that Christmas (Santa, presents, eggnog, caroling) is FILLED with non-religious (or even pagan) traditions that are continued "just because", right?
Atheists (and others) don't need to marginalize the season.
Christians (75% of the population) have done it all to themselves.
And you just want to blame others for it and refuse to recognize the obvious.
Are you for real right now?
The question I asked has nothing to do with monolithic characterizations.
I simply pointed out THERE ARE CHRISTIANS INVOLVED in the "Happy Holidays" usage. I didn't claim all or even most.
WTF am I supposedly not adhering to when you point out with your last sentence above?
Let me guess. This will be yet another inconvenient question you ignore...
SERIOUSLY man.
You can't see things for what they really are. You always have to find some villain to blame.
Christianity is losing members.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/12/u...christian.html
And it's not because of an attack from outside.
It's primarily because of Christians leaving because of ridiculous b.s. from within the church.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...stians/519135/
Also, Christians attacks on others (which you are perpetuating) being one other major factor labeled.
The real problem here is you make up excuses and refuse to find out the answers for yourself!
Here's another question for you to ignore.
Can you show any statistics documenting a very real statistical reason for Christians not saying "Merry Christmas" because they are afraid of retribution???

"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach."
Strother Martin

foundit66, i guess we disagree.

Merry Christmas to you and all your folks.
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Hope is the dream of the waking man.
Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8

Last edited by mr wonder; 12-21-2017 at 03:41 PM..
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2017, 05:23 PM
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Post Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
"What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach."
Strother Martin
The "failure to communicate" originates in you refusing to answer even the simplest questions to document your claims. To substantiate your views.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
foundit66, i guess we disagree.
Merry Christmas to you and all your folks.
Merry Christmas
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