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Polls Discuss Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real? at the General Forum; RW faux victimhood...

View Poll Results: Do you believe the "War on Christmas" is real?
Yes 7 53.85%
No 6 46.15%
Voters: 13. This poll is closed

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2017, 12:32 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

RW faux victimhood
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2017, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The first amendment establishes a lot more than just preventing a "state religion".
And the fact that you admit it has at least a century of precedent establishes it as a very real thing, regardless of how much you hate it.



Talking about SCOTUS being wrong on slavery (over 150 years ago) as some sort of implication regarding the first amendment is laughable.
There is no tangible correlation between the two. I could just as well claim that SCOTUS reversing itself on slavery means the Hobby Lobby ruling was wrong.



Christians whine that they are victims. Trying to pretend they and/or their religion is hated.
It's a boring strawman argument. The reason for preventing any religion from extending itself onto public land (or similar scenarios) is not against Christianity specifically, but a restriction on ALL religions.

But Christians gotta pretend it's personal.
Back to your strawmen again. I never claimed the first amendment was only about barring a State religion, it's called the establishment clause for a reason. I never claimed the SCOTUS fiat wasn't real.

What I did point out that SCOTUS decrees are impermanent. Precedent is far more volatile than legislation or Constitutional amendment. Democrats want precedent favorable to the Progressive agenda treated as inviolate holy writ barred from discussion.

It is curious that you think questioning the Hobby Lobby decision somehow rebutts the objection to the SCOTUS amending the Constitution with the wall of separation doctrine. To change the current status of judicial supremacy requires questioning their decrees including ones we may agree with. I have never written otherwise.

The claim that government restricting Christianity is treating all religious beliefs equally is absurd. The judiciary has consistently ruled in favor of atheist beliefs. Somehow atheist sensitivities are held superior to the first amendment's guarantee of the free exercise of religion. A prayer, even a silent one is banned so as not to offend the atheist. And a piece of metal melted into a cross shape by the fires of the world trade center 911 attack, well that has to be from the public museum.
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Old 12-12-2017, 11:17 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Whether one wishes to call it a "war on Christmas" or not, the fact remains that some people believe that it is more "inclusive" (a high value among liberals) to proclaim "Happy holidays!", rather than "Merry Christmas!"

The only other religious holiday that I know of, this time of year is Hanukkah. And in almost 70 years now, I have never yet heard of a Jew being offended by the traditional, "Merry Christmas!"

Atheists, however, seem to take severe offense at it.

The good news: "Merry Christmas!" seems to be making a comeback. I say it this time of year. And I have found many others doing the same thing recently.
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Old 12-12-2017, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Back to your strawmen again. I never claimed the first amendment was only about barring a State religion, it's called the establishment clause for a reason. I never claimed the SCOTUS fiat wasn't real.
"strawman" is where I claim you have an argument that you don't really have.
Since that is not what happened, your response is lame.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
What I did point out that SCOTUS decrees are impermanent. Precedent is far more volatile than legislation or Constitutional amendment. Democrats want precedent favorable to the Progressive agenda treated as inviolate holy writ barred from discussion.
And I responded to that by pointing out we could make the same assessment regarding Hobby Lobby. Or any ruling which conservatives find favorable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
It is curious that you think questioning the Hobby Lobby decision somehow rebutts the objection to the SCOTUS amending the Constitution with the wall of separation doctrine.
No. Yet again, you miss the point.
Actually, you epitomize the point by proving you understand the futility of that type of response when it suits you to understand the futility of that type of response.

Likewise, pointing out that SCOTUS has changed its mind in the past (on slavery no less) is in no way an intelligible response to the issue of separation of church and state today.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
To change the current status of judicial supremacy requires questioning their decrees including ones we may agree with. I have never written otherwise.

And I never claimed you wrote otherwise...


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The claim that government restricting Christianity is treating all religious beliefs equally is absurd. The judiciary has consistently ruled in favor of atheist beliefs.

Ruling for abstaining of religious presence on government property is not "ruling in favor of atheist beliefs".
Atheism has no tenet regarding governmental displays of religion.
Furthermore, separation of church and state is recognized as a good idea by many Christians as well. I could just as loosely (and inaccurately) proclaim it as a "Christian" belief.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Somehow atheist sensitivities are held superior to the first amendment's guarantee of the free exercise of religion. A prayer, even a silent one is banned so as not to offend the atheist. And a piece of metal melted into a cross shape by the fires of the world trade center 911 attack, well that has to be from the public museum.
No. Not "superior to".
The first amendment guarantees people are free to worship. It does not guarantee them a right to put up religious displays on public land.
It does not guarantee them a right to lead others in religious worship.

Those are the sticking points you need to understand.
And the failure to comprehend such significant aspects is part of the reason some Christians get so absurdly confused on this issue and start imagining that they are being targeted...

As I pointed out earlier, you and I can agree Shariah law should not be allowed for Muslims.
But many Christians who agree with that will instead want to insist that Christianity be allowed to put up their own equivalent. Demonstrating a hypocritical selfish ideology...
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:45 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

I would not claim that this is precisely a "Christian country."

But it is a Christian-majority country.

So if the majority wishes to express itself on public property, I really see no problem with that.
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Old 12-12-2017, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

If you have a Christian display on a government property, then are you ok with a Statanist display? Or a Muslim one and on and on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
I would not claim that this is precisely a "Christian country."

But it is a Christian-majority country.

So if the majority wishes to express itself on public property, I really see no problem with that.
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Old 12-12-2017, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Whether one wishes to call it a "war on Christmas" or not, the fact remains that some people believe that it is more "inclusive" (a high value among liberals) to proclaim "Happy holidays!", rather than "Merry Christmas!"

The only other religious holiday that I know of, this time of year is Hanukkah. And in almost 70 years now, I have never yet heard of a Jew being offended by the traditional, "Merry Christmas!"

Atheists, however, seem to take severe offense at it.

The good news: "Merry Christmas!" seems to be making a comeback. I say it this time of year. And I have found many others doing the same thing recently.
one of my daughters has a degree in music ministry and mentors new christians through the word. her and her husband attend church regularly, taking their babies with them. they have both worked for churches paid and non as music ministers coordinating that for sundays, holidays etc., not a small job.
She once put it this way,
"If anyone wishes me a happy holiday, I never take offense that they thought enough of me to stop and greet me or bless me in this way."
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:08 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
This is a cheesy cop-out question.
Quite frankly, I already acknowledged it was a "euphemism".
People answering the poll should be responsible for their own standards / opinions justifying their classifications...



Once again, I am amused at how some people focus such concern.

It's funny how you say my "question" is too vague.
I'm not the one who created these claims.
Do you ever stop to ask the right-wingers who claim it is happening to justify their definition of "war on Christmas" for their claim that it's happening?
There's another thread created by those who believe a war on Christmas exists. But I don't see you in there asking them to explain their classification...
Which is ironic because that's what the people who think there isn't any such war are asking...


Realistically, I am trying to find out how many people have an opinion, based on their own understanding and interpretation, that it's real.
My personal suspicion is that there are a few loud blowhard pundits who make the claim (e.g. Bill O'Reilly was one), but it's not something generally believed by a majority.
Foundit66, your full of S---.

I think a new poll is in order.
"Do you think Foundit66 wants a StrawMan to knock down?"
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:25 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch_v._Donnelly

Why did you even post this?
What do you think that means?

Do you understand that I (and many others) have previously explicitly acknowledged an interest in first amendment separation of church and state?

THAT IS WHY THIS SUIT WAS BROUGHT.
Not because anybody "took offense".
But because somebody thought it was a violation of first amendment separation of church and state.
The plaintiffs brought the suit to the District Court of Rhode Island, which permanently enjoined the city from displaying the Nativity scene as a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Confusing separation of church and state with "war on Christmas" or "war on Christianity" would be like proclaiming that a speed limit restriction is a "war on sedans"...
No, it's like a tunnel that is 30ft high, that clearly can accommodate and had allowed campers and semis to go through but cops suddenly not allowing vehicles 6 ft and above anymore. Claiming that's it's NOT REALLY about Campers and SemiTrucks "the tunnel" NEVER was supposed to allow any "vehicles" more than 6 feet.

it's clearly a targeted NEW restriction that has NOTHING to do with the freedom available.
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Old 12-13-2017, 12:45 PM
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Post Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Here is a polling result that is validated by watching people on this forum...
Only 3 percent of respondents said they'd be personally offended if somebody said “Merry Christmas” to them. But 13 percent said “Happy Holidays” would be offensive to them.
Poll: Conservatives most likely to be offended by holiday greetings

OVER FOUR TIMES as many people offended by "Happy Holidays" as those who are offended by "Merry Christmas".
It's been stated repeatedly throughout this forum over the last few weeks. Right-wingers don't want to comprehend it.
Happy Holidays vs Merry Christmas IS NOT ABOUT TAKING OFFENSE, except if you're demanding to hear Merry Christmas...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
No, it's like a tunnel that is 30ft high, that clearly can accommodate and had allowed campers and semis to go through but cops suddenly not allowing vehicles 6 ft and above anymore. Claiming that's it's NOT REALLY about Campers and SemiTrucks "the tunnel" NEVER was supposed to allow any "vehicles" more than 6 feet.
At least in this analogy, you're finally acknowledging it's not about targeting Christians.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
it's clearly a targeted NEW restriction that has NOTHING to do with the freedom available.
It does actually.
Our government should not be endorsing, in any manner, any religion. Refusal to endorse any religion is a sign of neutrality. A demonstration of equality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder
Foundit66, your full of S---.
Once again, you fail to address my actual words.
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