Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > General Forum > Polls
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Polls Discuss Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real? at the General Forum; Originally Posted by foundit66 This is a cheesy cop-out question. Quite frankly, I already acknowledged it was a "euphemism". People ...

Poll: Do you believe the "War on Christmas" is real?
This poll will close on 12-27-2017 at 12:09 PM
Be advised that this is a public poll: other users can see the choice(s) you selected.
Poll Options
Do you believe the "War on Christmas" is real?

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2017, 06:15 PM
Dog Man's Avatar
Down Boy!
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Southern Nevada
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,649
Thanks: 2,354
Thanked 3,481 Times in 2,514 Posts
Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
This is a cheesy cop-out question.
Quite frankly, I already acknowledged it was a "euphemism".
People answering the poll should be responsible for their own standards / opinions justifying their classifications...



Once again, I am amused at how some people focus such concern.

It's funny how you say my "question" is too vague.
I'm not the one who created these claims.
Do you ever stop to ask the right-wingers who claim it is happening to justify their definition of "war on Christmas" for their claim that it's happening?
There's another thread created by those who believe a war on Christmas exists. But I don't see you in there asking them to explain their classification...
Which is ironic because that's what the people who think there isn't any such war are asking...


Realistically, I am trying to find out how many people have an opinion, based on their own understanding and interpretation, that it's real.
My personal suspicion is that there are a few loud blowhard pundits who make the claim (e.g. Bill O'Reilly was one), but it's not something generally believed by a majority.
Lynch v. Donnelly


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation, search




Lynch v. Donnelly

Seal of the United States Supreme Court.svg

Supreme Court of the United States

Argued October 4, 1983
Decided March 5, 1984


Full case name
Dennis M. Lynch, Mayor of Pawtucket, et al. v. Daniel Donnelly, et al.

Citations
465 U.S. 668 (more)
104 S. Ct. 1355; 79 L. Ed. 2d 604; 1984 U.S. LEXIS 37; 52 U.S.L.W. 4317


Holding

The city of Pawtucket's nativity scene does not violate the Establishment Clause.

Court membership

Chief JusticeWarren E. BurgerAssociate JusticesWilliam J. Brennan, Jr. · Byron White
Thurgood Marshall · Harry Blackmun
Lewis F. Powell, Jr. · William Rehnquist
John P. Stevens · Sandra Day O'Connor

Case opinions


Majority
Burger, joined by White, Powell, Rehnquist, O'Connor

Concurrence
O'Connor

Dissent
Brennan, joined by Marshall, Blackmun, Stevens

Dissent
Blackmun, joined by Stevens

Laws applied

U.S. Const. amend. I

Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668 (1984), was a United States Supreme Court case challenging the legality of Christmas decorations on town property.



Contents [hide]
1 Background
2 Ruling
3 Concurrence
4 Dissent
5 See also
6 References
7 Further reading
8 External links


Background[edit]

Pawtucket, Rhode Island's annual Christmas display in the city's shopping district, consisting of a Santa Claus house, a Christmas tree, a banner reading "Season's Greetings," and a crèche, was challenged in court. The crèche had been a part of the display since at least 1943.[1] The plaintiffs brought the suit to the District Court of Rhode Island, which permanently enjoined the city from displaying the Nativity scene as a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The Court of Appeals for the First Circuit affirmed the district court's ruling. The city then petitioned to the U.S. Supreme Court, which granted certiorari.

Ruling[edit]

The Supreme Court reversed previous rulings in a vote of 5–4, ruling that the display was not an effort to advocate a particular religious message and had "legitimate secular purposes."

Chief Justice Burger delivered the opinion of the Court, in which Justices White, Powell, Rehnquist, and O'Connor joined.[2] The Court held that the crèche did not violate the Establishment Clause based on the test created in Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971). They ruled that the crèche is a passive representation of religion and that there was "insufficient evidence to establish that the inclusion of the crèche is a purposeful or surreptitious effort to express some kind of subtle governmental advocacy of a particular religious" view. They also stated that the Constitution "affirmatively mandates accommodation, not merely tolerance of all religions, and forbids hostility toward any."

The Court ruled that the crèche has a legitimate secular purpose within a larger holiday display to celebrate the season and the origins of Christmas which has long been a part of Western culture. The Federal "Government has long recognized—indeed it has subsidized—holidays with religious significance." For example, the first Congress that passed the First Amendment enacted legislation providing for paid Chaplains in the House and Senate, and "It has long been the practice that federal employees are released from duties on Thanksgiving and Christmas while being paid." The court compared the crèche to the display of religious paintings in government funded museums. In addition, the crèche requires only minimal expenses for assembly and dismantling. The Court also stated, "no inquiry into potential political divisiveness is even called for" because the situation does not involve direct aid to church-sponsored organizations and because the crèche been displayed for 40 years with no problems
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2017, 07:33 PM
foundit66's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,868
Thanks: 9,820
Thanked 14,915 Times in 9,032 Posts
Post Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Man View Post
Lynch v. Donnelly
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
Lynch v. Donnelly
Seal of the United States Supreme Court.svg
Supreme Court of the United States
Argued October 4, 1983
Decided March 5, 1984
....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch_v._Donnelly

Why did you even post this?
What do you think that means?

Do you understand that I (and many others) have previously explicitly acknowledged an interest in first amendment separation of church and state?

THAT IS WHY THIS SUIT WAS BROUGHT.
Not because anybody "took offense".
But because somebody thought it was a violation of first amendment separation of church and state.
The plaintiffs brought the suit to the District Court of Rhode Island, which permanently enjoined the city from displaying the Nativity scene as a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Confusing separation of church and state with "war on Christmas" or "war on Christianity" would be like proclaiming that a speed limit restriction is a "war on sedans"...
__________________
“Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
~Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to foundit66 For This Useful Post:
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-07-2017, 08:37 PM
Surly's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,163
Thanks: 2,771
Thanked 3,027 Times in 2,365 Posts
Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

IT is just aRWNM fuel to keep the RWers all fired up.
__________________
Grab her by the *****, Vote Roy Moore.

-Donald
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Surly For This Useful Post:
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 09:27 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 15,149
Thanks: 7,989
Thanked 8,669 Times in 5,378 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynch_v._Donnelly

Why did you even post this?
What do you think that means?

Do you understand that I (and many others) have previously explicitly acknowledged an interest in first amendment separation of church and state?

THAT IS WHY THIS SUIT WAS BROUGHT.
Not because anybody "took offense".
But because somebody thought it was a violation of first amendment separation of church and state.
The plaintiffs brought the suit to the District Court of Rhode Island, which permanently enjoined the city from displaying the Nativity scene as a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.
Confusing separation of church and state with "war on Christmas" or "war on Christianity" would be like proclaiming that a speed limit restriction is a "war on sedans"...
The establishment clause of the first amendment enjoins the Federal government from establishing a State religion. There is no provision for separation of church and state, that was added by SCOTUS fiat more than a century after the Constitution was ratified.

Recall that the SCOTUS has reversed itself on fundamental issues such as slavery so the reverential treatment of the seperation decree is more aspirational than real. Just like the war on Christmas atheists want to censor discussion as a means of repressing change.

No intent to divert the thread into a discussion of the judicial fiat of church and state desperation but you insisted that is the central issue. The response to the survey is yes, there is a war on Christmas. It is part of the war on Christianity, without Christmas there is no Christianity because there is no Jesus.
__________________
The Democrat's strategy for the Trump Presidency is the same one used by Stalin's secret police chief "show me the man and I will show you the crime."
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to AZRWinger For This Useful Post:
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 04:21 PM
Hairy Jello's Avatar
Deplorable
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 18,342
Thanks: 1,750
Thanked 10,377 Times in 6,432 Posts
Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Of course there's a "War on Christmas." The majority of it is just libs whining 'bout somethin' but still....
__________________

Not an accurate representation of a white person.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 04:33 PM
saltwn's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Esto perpetua
Posts: 73,554
Thanks: 52,997
Thanked 25,314 Times in 17,972 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to saltwn
Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

5 nos 3 yeses
on this forum that's pretty profound
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 07:21 PM
Hairy Jello's Avatar
Deplorable
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 18,342
Thanks: 1,750
Thanked 10,377 Times in 6,432 Posts
Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

The fact almost every large business requires its employees to say, "Happy Holidays" instead of, "Merry Xmas" tells ya all you need to know.

If ya say, "Merry Xmas" to a cashier at Walmart you'd think you just started the second Holocaust.
__________________

Not an accurate representation of a white person.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Hairy Jello For This Useful Post:
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 09:59 PM
saltwn's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Esto perpetua
Posts: 73,554
Thanks: 52,997
Thanked 25,314 Times in 17,972 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to saltwn
Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy Jello View Post
The fact almost every large business requires its employees to say, "Happy Holidays" instead of, "Merry Xmas" tells ya all you need to know.

If ya say, "Merry Xmas" to a cashier at Walmart you'd think you just started the second Holocaust.
oh you're so full of sht. We say it all the time.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to saltwn For This Useful Post:
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:05 PM
foundit66's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,868
Thanks: 9,820
Thanked 14,915 Times in 9,032 Posts
Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The establishment clause of the first amendment enjoins the Federal government from establishing a State religion. There is no provision for separation of church and state, that was added by SCOTUS fiat more than a century after the Constitution was ratified.
The first amendment establishes a lot more than just preventing a "state religion".
And the fact that you admit it has at least a century of precedent establishes it as a very real thing, regardless of how much you hate it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Recall that the SCOTUS has reversed itself on fundamental issues such as slavery so the reverential treatment of the seperation decree is more aspirational than real. Just like the war on Christmas atheists want to censor discussion as a means of repressing change.
Talking about SCOTUS being wrong on slavery (over 150 years ago) as some sort of implication regarding the first amendment is laughable.
There is no tangible correlation between the two. I could just as well claim that SCOTUS reversing itself on slavery means the Hobby Lobby ruling was wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
No intent to divert the thread into a discussion of the judicial fiat of church and state desperation but you insisted that is the central issue. The response to the survey is yes, there is a war on Christmas. It is part of the war on Christianity, without Christmas there is no Christianity because there is no Jesus.
Christians whine that they are victims. Trying to pretend they and/or their religion is hated.
It's a boring strawman argument. The reason for preventing any religion from extending itself onto public land (or similar scenarios) is not against Christianity specifically, but a restriction on ALL religions.

But Christians gotta pretend it's personal.
__________________
“Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
~Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-11-2017, 10:07 PM
Hairy Jello's Avatar
Deplorable
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 18,342
Thanks: 1,750
Thanked 10,377 Times in 6,432 Posts
Default Re: Do you think the "War on Christmas" is real?

Wonder what word will be used as a replacement when libs decide "holiday" is too offensive.
__________________

Not an accurate representation of a white person.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
real, the, think, war on christmas, you

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0