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Polls Discuss Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump at the General Forum; Originally Posted by jimbo Approximately .1%. Another .4% Chapter 11 reorgs. Care to explain those statistics? Originally Posted by jimbo ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2016, 06:44 PM
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Post Re: Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Approximately .1%. Another .4% Chapter 11 reorgs.
Care to explain those statistics?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
The other 99.5% Trump has turned into a top .5% net worth.
"turned into"?


Donald Trump would have made MORE better if he had simply invested it in OTHER companies. He made LESS money (managing it himself) than he could have if he had simply invested it in index funds.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-pr...233020366.html
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Old 10-31-2016, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
"managing spending"?
How many times has he filed for bankruptcy again?


And your bizarre claim on "giving Obama and the Democrats virtually anything they wanted" is too absurd to even warrant a response.
Trump's net worth is $4 - $10 BILLION depending on the valuation used. He has successfully managed multiple projects involving hundreds of millions of dollars. His record of success is public record.

Go ahead and explain to us how skillfully Hillary Clinton managed spending on security in high risk areas like Benghazi. Oh wait, career politicians just deny responsibility they do not have to take risks or be accountable like in private businesses.
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Old 11-01-2016, 10:47 AM
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Post Re: Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Trump's net worth is $4 - $10 BILLION depending on the valuation used. He has successfully managed multiple projects involving hundreds of millions of dollars. His record of success is public record.
Again, your claim of "success" is a blind claim that centers around starting with a lot of money and turning it into even more money.
But as pointed out, it's not really that much of a success.
If he had simply taken himself completely out of the equation and invested in others, he would have had a LOT more money.
Trump Worth $10 Billion Less Than If He’d Simply Invested in Index Funds

It's like saying:
GS: "Look guys! I sold 50 boxes of girl scout cookies. I'm a success"
Another GS: "That's actually kind of boring as others in your position have sold twice as much..."
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:37 AM
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Default Re: Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Care to explain those statistics?



"turned into"?


Donald Trump would have made MORE better if he had simply invested it in OTHER companies. He made LESS money (managing it himself) than he could have if he had simply invested it in index funds.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-pr...233020366.html
Math. 3rd grade math.

Trump over the years has been involved in approximately 1000 companies. Exactly 1 has declared bankruptcy (.1%) and 4 reorgs (.4%)
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Old 11-01-2016, 11:39 AM
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Default Re: Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Again, your claim of "success" is a blind claim that centers around starting with a lot of money and turning it into even more money.
But as pointed out, it's not really that much of a success.
If he had simply taken himself completely out of the equation and invested in others, he would have had a LOT more money.
Trump Worth $10 Billion Less Than If He’d Simply Invested in Index Funds

It's like saying:
GS: "Look guys! I sold 50 boxes of girl scout cookies. I'm a success"
Another GS: "That's actually kind of boring as others in your position have sold twice as much..."
I'd be interested in the names of those who have sold twice as many girl scout cookies.
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Old 11-01-2016, 01:44 PM
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Post Re: Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
I'd be interested in the names of those who have sold twice as many girl scout cookies.
S&P 500 — that is, 500 stocks representing the American stock market.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._500_companies
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Again, your claim of "success" is a blind claim that centers around starting with a lot of money and turning it into even more money.
But as pointed out, it's not really that much of a success.
If he had simply taken himself completely out of the equation and invested in others, he would have had a LOT more money.
Trump Worth $10 Billion Less Than If He’d Simply Invested in Index Funds

It's like saying:
GS: "Look guys! I sold 50 boxes of girl scout cookies. I'm a success"
Another GS: "That's actually kind of boring as others in your position have sold twice as much..."
The story of business success is starting.with some capital and.turning it into more capital. IN Trump's case he exponentially increased the value of his company from the initial loan from his family. That is a success to all but the most craven partisan.

The trouble with cookie sales analogy is that Trump and the index funds are not engaged in the same business. Trump was in the real estate development business while index funds are a basket of stocks from multiple companies. For example, the S&P 500 is weighted towards the highest capitalized companies like Apple in an industry with higher profit maruins than real estate development.

Even if the claim Trump could have made more money investing in Index funds is true, it doesn't mean he was a bad businessman. The comparison is of dissimilar investments. Of course to the ignorant partisan anything that sounds like a criticism of Trump is accepted without question.
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:18 PM
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Post Re: Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The story of business success is starting.with some capital and.turning it into more capital. IN Trump's case he exponentially increased the value of his company from the initial loan from his family. That is a success to all but the most craven partisan.
"exponentially"...

ALL of the S&P 500 stocks "exponentially" increase the value of their companies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The trouble with cookie sales analogy is that Trump and the index funds are not engaged in the same business. Trump was in the real estate development business while index funds are a basket of stocks from multiple companies. For example, the S&P 500 is weighted towards the highest capitalized companies like Apple in an industry with higher profit maruins than real estate development.
Even if the claim Trump could have made more money investing in Index funds is true, it doesn't mean he was a bad businessman. The comparison is of dissimilar investments. Of course to the ignorant partisan anything that sounds like a criticism of Trump is accepted without question.
Moving the goal-posts, are you...

This started because somebody was trying to spout off about how Trump was supposedly a "good" businessman.
Now, you're back-pedaling onto "doesn't mean he was a bad businessman".
:laugh

My point is that all those people who are trying to blindly allege "good businessman" based on his capability to turn a lot of money into more of a lot of money are really setting the bar low.

When you devolve your position into "doesn't mean he was a bad businessman", at least you're being more realistic about the whole situation.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2016, 06:29 AM
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Default Re: Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
"exponentially"...

ALL of the S&P 500 stocks "exponentially" increase the value of their companies.



Moving the goal-posts, are you...

This started because somebody was trying to spout off about how Trump was supposedly a "good" businessman.
Now, you're back-pedaling onto "doesn't mean he was a bad businessman".
:laugh

My point is that all those people who are trying to blindly allege "good businessman" based on his capability to turn a lot of money into more of a lot of money are really setting the bar low.

When you devolve your position into "doesn't mean he was a bad businessman", at least you're being more realistic about the whole situation.
You are the one who is moving the goal posts. THE accusation was Trump was not a good businessman as shown by a few bankruptcies and the performance of index funds. I pointed out that Trump like lots of successful businesses did not outperform the S&P 500 because the 2 are dissimilar. The S&P 500 is weighted by capitalization and crosses multiple sectors of the economy. When one sector is attracting more capital more of the index is invested there. That doesn't make the other sectors bad investments or the companies led by bad businesspeople.

Berating Trump as a bad businessman compared to the S&P 500 ignores the faCT that Trump is in a single sector, a valid comparison would be to comparable companies over the same time period. OF course that will not be done because it likely shows his success.

Private electrical power companies average 7-8% profit annually. It costs billions in capital investment for them to provide electricity. Using the Trump hater standard of under performing the S&P 500 these companies are run by failures who would have been better off mowing the lawn. Of course there is that pesky need for electricity just like there is a need for office space and a demand for recreational properties like Trump provides.
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Old 11-02-2016, 08:18 AM
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Default Re: Ouch: 84 Percent of Dems Prefer Paul Ryan to Lead GOP Over Trump

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
"exponentially"...

ALL of the S&P 500 stocks "exponentially" increase the value of their companies.



Moving the goal-posts, are you...

This started because somebody was trying to spout off about how Trump was supposedly a "good" businessman.
Now, you're back-pedaling onto "doesn't mean he was a bad businessman".
:laugh

My point is that all those people who are trying to blindly allege "good businessman" based on his capability to turn a lot of money into more of a lot of money are really setting the bar low.

When you devolve your position into "doesn't mean he was a bad businessman", at least you're being more realistic about the whole situation.
No they don't. To suggest that all S & P companies always increase value is absurd.

Then there's the matter of hindsight vs. foresight. In general it's easier to predict the past rather than the future.

Remember Circuit City, W T Grant, FW Woolworth? All once S & P 500 companies. Or Sears/K Mart and a host of others soon to join them.
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