I am confused. It would seem you are objecting to illegals getting an education and going up the improvement ladder (?) Does that mean you'd have no problem with them if they were always at the bottom of the barrel and stayed where they are most needed? i.e. in the fields, no insurance, without competitive wages?

I think the government should act for many reasons: to protect American jobs from illegals that continue to filter unchecked through the border; to bring the illegals currently in the country who have made a life here out into the open (whether it be by deporting them all, or providing the deserving with a means to be legal), thus eliminating the sense of bigotry against illegals and all Hispanics that is slowly settling in the country; to broker the divide that this controversy is having among the population. But certainly, I do not want these reforms done to keep these people "in their place" (firmly below an American citizen),

dga, I don't want to answer for mlurp; he is capable of addressing the main portion of your post.
But I would like to ask you if you are aware that there are also Hispanics who are bigots and want to see only their people get ahead? I just wonder if you are aware of that?

__________________
"All right, then, I'll go to hell!"
-Huck Finn

No I want them to obey the laws. Did you miss that too? I think any citizen should have the right to earn a decent living and be educated as far as they can go. Like after WWII we grew greatly because of the free education offered to service members.
My idea for the 20 million or more is allow them to join the Military, take the time to teach them English. Then basic and AIT (Advanced Infantry training) or what ever MOS they might need filled. And serve in our Military (maybe at a lower rate of pay only because of the status and our great costs already) And once they have served they become citizens which is another way they jump the line. Plus they then have the GI Bill to learn an education for better jobs than a meat packing plant.

I was referring to what is behind this mess, the wealthy and their goals of bringing American to it knees in the job market place. Opinions are nice to have. But knowing th ereal resons behind any issues is much better.

Look you want to debate and I have said what I want to on the subject. I need not continue with going back and forth when I have said all I can on the issue at htis time. We are a country of laws! So enforce them. Like th estory on the 4 meat packing plants that were raided in the last month. Th epay scale is so low that even th eAmericans havea hard time making ends meet. Th eMexicans live in cheap hotels buched togeter to save a dollar, which leaves this country. So again they pay no taxes and take from our society in so many ways. Why not find a solution and stop th emany new ones from coming. Let them instead get their govt. t increase jobs and pay a proper wage. While in Cancun before my wife died we spoke to many Mexicans. At the resorts some got $3.00 a day in wages. Is that right?

Okay, let's see what we agree on. We agree on the fact that the border needs to be closed "pronto". We agree on the fact that the illegals who are here, are here because the government (pressured by greedy corporate America) has allowed them to be here, because they work for low wages, keeping corporations profitable. We also agree that this fact is what drives down wages for legal residents and Americans.

What we don't agree on. I don't think it would be fair to require anyone to risk their life for a country that does not want them. But, most of them would be desperate enough to accept instead of going back to their country which affords them no possibilities. Of course, it would not be a first. In the Vietnam war, legal residents were drafted first and given the option of fighting for this country, or returning to their own.

Economist don't agree on you regarding the economic burden of illegals, as figures show that they provide a net contribution to the GDP.

Yes, wages in Mexico are probably that low, but with the exchange rate and the price difference, there is no comparison.

I think people have a tendency, in general, to prefer to do business, interact, etc. with "their own kind", but I think that speaks more to the human factor than a race factor. It's each person's porerogative to be a "closet bigot", the problem is when legislation (or lack thereof) promotes these tendencies to be generalized against a specific group of people, IMO.

And therefore you speak of human facto over the law!

I was making a suggestion. To help our worn out troops. Nothing more and in th eoffer they have a win win situation.
And yes they do have a choice. Just how many have been caught and caught again and still return. Your debate is slowly filling with holes sir!

First of all, it's ma'am. I don't think any guy would use a kitten as their avatar,

You suggestion is a valid one, and one which many illegal immigrants would likely take up gratefully, so it might kill two birds with one stone. IMO it is hypocritical - just another version of come do what I'd rather not (not talking about soldiers in the military, but to the ones who would not have to be drafted). If illegals are equated with all these undesirable qualities, then how can they be good enough for our front lines?

I have stressed, repeatedly in other threads I guess, that I am all for closing the borders and upholding the laws. I found this commentary which I thought very accurate.

Commentary: 10 ugly things about the immigration debate - CNN.com

Sorry abuot that mistake. I love kittens and once used one myself.
As for you IMO I differ on this. If they come to take the jobs we Americans don't care to preform. Then why not offer them a chance to earn it all including the countries respect. And gain a sense of honor they in their plit might not have. And remember it was a suggestion to open the doors for them and not deport them. And also offer them away to avoid any hard times in society that they now face. But it up to them. Not all 20 million would take it.
I agree that many don't want this job either but the Military has meet their recuitment goals for going on 6 years now. I might add many HS grads (the ones they need) have not signed up so they have lowered the standards. And I have posted at another site that a study done on the ones with waviers have earned more meldals for valor than the HS group. Hopefully these same soldiers/marines allow the honor/code of conduct to determine what they do with the training once they get out.

And again I am sorry for the sex mix up.
But you might have not understood in the earlier post what I have mentioned in this one if you haven't served in the Military. If the trooper is open to it they are taught honor and a code of conduct as a way to keep going stronge in life.
It is nice to disagree at some point with another who is charming and stays on point. Thank you.
I never meant to change your mind. Just add some fact to it. As Dylan sang we all learn or die.

I hope so because if my wife ever dies I'm gonna go impregnate some Aussie girl and move down under.

Shouldn't you move down under first, or have you an Aussia girl already lined up Mikeyy? Best your wife doesn't read this thread. You might die first.. lol