Should organ donation after death be opt-in or opt-out?

cnredd · #1 (**permalink**) 01-12-2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Gordon Brown has thrown his weight behind a move to allow hospitals to take organs from dead patients without explicit consent.

Writing in The Sunday Telegraph, the Prime Minister says that such a facility would save thousands of lives and that he hopes such a system can start this year.

The proposals would mean consent for organ donation after death would be automatically presumed, unless individuals had opted out of the national register or family members objected.

But patients' groups said that they were "totally opposed" to Mr Brown's plan, saying that it would take away patients' rights over their own bodies.

There are more than 8,000 patients waiting for an organ donation and more than 1,000 a year die without receiving the organ that could save their lives.

The Government will launch an overhaul of the system next week, which will put pressure on doctors and nurses to identify more "potential organ donors" from dying patients. Hospitals will be rated for the number of deceased patients they "convert" into donors and doctors will be expected to identify potential donors earlier and alert donor co-ordinators as patients approach death.

But Mr Brown, who carries a donor card, has made it clear he backs an even more radical revamp of the system, which would lead to donation by "presumed consent". The approach is modelled on that of Spain, which has the highest proportion of organ donors in the world.

I'm against this...

Knowing that saving a patient teetering on death will lose "products" that could be used to help others will make doctors think twice about doing all they can...especially in cases where the "value of life" wouldn't be high even if they do save the patient...

Doctor - "We COULD save the patient, but if we do, this guy will live the rest of his life in a bed hooked to a machine...and he'll probably only last another 8 months anyway...It's better if we just take what we need from this guy and use his organs where they'll be put to better use."...

dabateman · #2 (**permalink**) 01-13-2008, 12:02 AM

Dang... my dot was in the wrong radial...

saltwn · #3 (**permalink**) 01-13-2008, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd

Organs to be taken without consent

I'm against this...

Knowing that saving a patient teetering on death will lose "products" that could be used to help others will make doctors think twice about doing all they can...especially in cases where the "value of life" wouldn't be high even if they do save the patient...

Doctor - "We COULD save the patient, but if we do, this guy will live the rest of his life in a bed hooked to a machine...and he'll probably only last another 8 months anyway...It's better if we just take what we need from this guy and use his organs where they'll be put to better use."...

I think you underestimate doctors. Most of them are egotistical, lean more toward being hesitant to pull the plug from what I've seen. (And I've seen a lot in the way of death and dying). Very few of them will actually write a "no-code' or do-not-resuscitate, even when it appears 'hopeless.
I'm not saying they're all saints, but they do seem to take their oath very seriously.

cnredd · #4 (**permalink**) 01-13-2008, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

I think you underestimate doctors. Most of them are egotistical, lean more toward being hesitant to pull the plug from what I've seen. (And I've seen a lot in the way of death and dying). Very few of them will actually write a "no-code' or do-not-resuscitate, even when it appears 'hopeless.
I'm not saying they're all saints, but they do seem to take their oath very seriously.

you're talking about the current situation...

I believe that changes with this implementation...

saltwn · #5 (**permalink**) 01-13-2008, 01:34 AM

There's no way I can be unbiased about this. I voted opt-out.
As some of you may know, my brother who has been on a transplant list for years died in November.
He had gotten to the point he no longer only needed a liver, but other organs as well. He eventually developed cancer a few months before he passed.
Although he had been optimistic throughout his life, his last words to me about his illness were, "You know, ____, if I didn't know better, I'd think if I was rich, I'd have had that operation a long time ago."
It was really hard to hear him say that. He was never a nay sayer but an inspiration until those last few months.
His blood was B negative, so yeah, that was unlucky. And children and people who aren't diabetic are closer to the top of the list.
Any way, I think opt out is better. People forget to opt in and it's a very emotional time when a loved one dies. But there are people-doctors and nurses-who have the task of approaching these family members to see if they will allow organ donation. It would be better if the family didn't have to face these questions so soon after a loss. But what else is there to do? There wouldn't be as many organs donated as there are at the present rate if families weren't approached.

Spencer Collins · #6 (**permalink**) 01-13-2008, 01:48 AM

It's my body and I will opt-in if I want to.

cnredd · #7 (**permalink**) 01-13-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

There's no way I can be unbiased about this. I voted opt-out.
As some of you may know, my brother who has been on a transplant list for years died in November.
He had gotten to the point he no longer only needed a liver, but other organs as well. He eventually developed cancer a few months before he passed.
Although he had been optimistic throughout his life, his last words to me about his illness were, "You know, ____, if I didn't know better, I'd think if I was rich, I'd have had that operation a long time ago."
It was really hard to hear him say that. He was never a nay sayer but an inspiration until those last few months.
His blood was B negative, so yeah, that was unlucky. And children and people who aren't diabetic are closer to the top of the list.
Any way, I think opt out is better. People forget to opt in and it's a very emotional time when a loved one dies. But there are people-doctors and nurses-who have the task of approaching these family members to see if they will allow organ donation. It would be better if the family didn't have to face these questions so soon after a loss. But what else is there to do? There wouldn't be as many organs donated as there are at the present rate if families weren't approached.

I sympathize with the situation, but in the interest of fairness, I must ask this question...

How would your brother feel if he found out the doctors intentionally let a patient with a 10% chance at a viable life (let's say irreversible head trauma) drift off without trying in order for your brother to continue his life?...

saltwn · #8 (**permalink**) 01-13-2008, 03:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd

I sympathize with the situation, but in the interest of fairness, I must ask this question...

How would your brother feel if he found out the doctors intentionally let a patient with a 10% chance at a viable life (let's say irreversible head trauma) drift off without trying in order for your brother to continue his life?...

Where did you get the idea doctors are so unethical? I've already stated more doctors than not don't even like to write no-codes. No. don't like is not the correct phrase. It's like trying to chase them down and pull their wisdom teeth with a rusty pair of pliers.
Have you been watching too many twilight zone episode?
If you are worried about a fantasy like ' maybe doctors will be reluctant to save certain lives", then you are under a false assumption, an old wives tale if you will.
What about the quick fatality? The victim is a ten year old boy killed instantly but some of his organs are still salvageable. Are you telling me you would rather continue the system as it is and have someone ask that boy's mom and dad about donating their son's organs? There's a time issue, so they may be queried only moments after learning of his death.

crazyflamingos · #9 (**permalink**) 01-13-2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

Any way, I think opt out is better. People forget to opt in ......

This gave me a start. I was recently hospitalized and had to be transferred from our local hospital to another.

At both facilities part of the admission process was to ask if I wanted to be a donor and I then had to sign off on the permission form.

Does anyone know if this is not standard practice in U.S. hospitals?

Also we, in Alabama, are asked when renewing our driver's license if we wish to be a donor.

Is this not standard in other states?

crazyflamingos · #10 (**permalink**) 01-13-2008, 12:34 PM

I didn't vote yet. This is a question that I am going to have to mull over for a while.

I would not mind this law for myself but I can envision others objecting.

View Poll Results: Should organ donation after death be opt-in or opt-out?
opt-in	6	46.15%
opt-out	7	53.85%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

LinkBacks (?) LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/polls/1866-should-organ-donation-after-death-opt-opt-out.html
Posted By	For	Type	Date
Stories Tagged 'culture' » Propeller	This thread	Refback	01-22-2008 07:30 AM
Untitled document	This thread	Refback	01-16-2008 04:03 AM
Political Wrinkles	This thread	Refback	01-13-2008 01:33 PM

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to saltwn For This Useful Post:
crazyflamingos, team_barlo

The Following User Says Thank You to saltwn For This Useful Post:
team_barlo